Rudy Van Gelder - Best Engineer Ever?

[ebozzz]

If he's not, he's got to be right there near the top. I've got quite a few of his recordings, both Blue Note & CTI, and they all sound amazing! They way that all of the instruments sit in the mix on the projects that he touched is amazing. Yeah, he would be my number 1.

[RHFusillo]

He engineered sessions for Prestige, Blue Note, Impulse, CTI, and other labels. What an amazing career and what amazing recordings.

I read that Television wanted RVG to record their first album. I wonder what that would have sounded like.

[ebozzz]

Originally Posted by RHFusillo

He engineered sessions for Prestige, Blue Note, Impulse, CTI, and other labels.

You just started something. Now I have to try to find those other labels!

[Ed Fuqua]

Bob Moses has a funny RVG story.

I dig his output; another cat who I would like to work with is Joe Ferla. I been checking out this TETHERED MOON cd (PLAYS KURT WEILL - Masabumi Kikuchi, Gary Peacock and Paul Motian) and the SOUND he gets down on tape is just what I wanna hear.

[metalguy2]

Rudy Van Gelder recorded jazz way better than all of the new guys who are doing it today... Seriously.. I find that all the old stuff sounds way better than the new stuff coming out!

[JimK]

Wasn't Gelder's original Blue Note sessions done in his parents' living room?
Look at some of the photos from those sessions...you'll see his parents' furniture, TV, etc in the background.

[Freaky Fender]

I dunno, Tom Dowd is up their, but Alan Moulder is my Engineering god/idol.

He helped Kevin Shields get the sound he wanted on "Loveless" after he scrapped (rumoured) 50 engineers! That's some feat.

[ebozzz]

Originally Posted by metalguy2

Rudy Van Gelder recorded jazz way better than all of the new guys who are doing it today...

The thing that really impresses me about what he recorded is that the sound of each individual instrument is clearly heard. It's almost like everyone is doing a solo but no one is stepping on the other parties. I can't explain it any better with my limited vocabulary and poor writing skills.

[ebozzz]

Originally Posted by JimK

Wasn't Gelder's original Blue Note sessions done in his parents' living room?
Look at some of the photos from those sessions...you'll see his parents' furniture, TV, etc in the background.

Here's a quote from Rudy.....

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=1116

All About Jazz: For those readers who may not be as familiar with you career, tell me briefly about how you got involved in the recording business.


Rudy Van Gelder: Well, I was always involved in recording when I was a kid. It got to be a business shortly thereafter. I used to record my friends, many of whom were amateur musicians. I used to do it at my parents' house and then people heard about that and then I would get calls from musicians and singers in the neighborhood and they would want me to record them, which I did, making demos and that sort of grew for quite awhile. Then I started getting calls from people in the record business, private record labels at the time, and I started recording for them. That's how I got into it.

[metalguy2]

Originally Posted by ebozzz

The thing that really impresses me about what he recorded is that the sound of each individual instrument is clearly heard. It's almost like everyone is doing a solo but no one is stepping on the other parties. I can't explain it any better with my limited vocabulary and poor writing skills.

That is exactly how I was thinking! On some of the newer records I own things like the bass would be buried in the mix. BUT NOT RUDY'S!!!

[jerry]

As much as I hate to be one of those "back-in-my-day" old guys, the recordings that guys like Rudy,Tom Dowd, etc did, sound so good compared to the over-produced-glossy-pro-tooled stuff that comes out now.

[Dbassmon]

I hate these kinds of questions because A) it's completely subjective and B) it's an exercise in futility. Time can be better spent practicing etc.

Rudy had a recording studio in his house in Englewood or Teaneck, New Jersey. He recorded lots and lots of famous jazz musicians throughout the 60s, 70s and into the 80's. The equipment was fairly bassic, most of the really good sounding records were 2 track live in the studio. When he got into multitracking in the 70's the sound was not that great. That's an opinion of coarse. Some of that was stylistic, muffled flat toms with evans heads, yuck!

McCoy Tyner, Ron Carter, George Benson (when he used to play jazz guitar) Stanley Turintine, and the list goes on and on and on and on, all recorded at Van Gelders.

The best ever? I don't think so. I don't like the question. Important in the world of Jazz recording? Absolutely!!!!

[ebozzz]

Originally Posted by Dbassmon

I hate these kinds of questions because A) it's completely subjective and B) it's an exercise in futility. Time can be better spent practicing etc.

You had to get a piece if it regardless, huh? Well, there goes your practice routine!

[RHFusillo]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Bob Moses has a funny RVG story.

And you're not going to share it with us, Ed?

[tkozal]

When the RVG reissue series started, I recall reading a negative critique. They compared the earlier cd issues with the RVG issues, and the conclusion of the article was "Rudy still doesn't know how to deal with the bass".

So go figure.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Not trying to deny his contribution - the 60s Blue Note recordings are among my favourites ever - but isn't a large part of the sound down to the musicians?

I mean we're talking about some of the best ever - who were doing it every night and a time when people played at "acoustic" volume regularly - where it was about listening and playing together - really hearing what was going on !

So you could have just stuck a mic in front of those guys and it would have sounded great - maybe not quite so great, but....?

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

So you could have just stuck a mic in front of those guys and it would have sounded great - maybe not quite so great, but....?

I think for a lot of the classic sessions, sticking two mikes in front of the band is pretty much what he did. Not that there's not skill and good ears involved in working that way; certainly not just anybody can do it. But I don't think there was some mystical magical engineering thing going on. RVG had a good sounding room and good gear (or good enough), he was recording some of the best jazz musicians on earth, and he seems to have had good ears. In a way--and again, this isn't to put down RVG or those records--it would be more surprising if the records didn't sound good.

[ebozzz]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Not trying to deny his contribution - the 60s Blue Note recordings are among my favourites ever - but isn't a large part of the sound down to the musicians?

It certainly helps to start with great musicians! Still, there are recordings of great musicians that don't sound as good as Rudy's. He had to have a significant impact on that sound. If not, why would he be a part of so many great sessions with many different artists/labels?

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by ebozzz

It certainly helps to start with great musicians! Still, there are recordings of great musicians that don't sound as good as Rudy's. He had to have a significant impact on that sound. If not, why would he be a part of so many great sessions with many different artists/labels?

Good at picking the best musicians/bands?

[ebozzz]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Good at picking the best musicians/bands?

Nope. Good at being selected by the labels/musicians/bands to record the best musicians/bands.