Rudy Van Gelder - Best Engineer Ever?

[Richard Lindsey]

Here's an interesting interview:

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=1116

On the other hand, this:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/ar...hp/t-3230.html

[ebozzz]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

Here's an interesting interview:

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=1116

On the other hand, this:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/ar...hp/t-3230.html

I saw the AAJ article previously. I even quoted a part of it in this thread earlier. Now the thread from the SH Forums is one that I will have to read more of when time permits. Although, I don't think that it's going to change my opinion very much. Rudy's stuff just sounds good to my ears! I guess I happen to enjoy hearing recordings made by "taking three or four expensive German mics with a blistering top end boost, put them real close to the instruments, add some extra distortion from a cheap overloading mic preamp through an Army surplus radio console, put some crappy plate reverb on it, and record. Then, immediately (and for no good reason), redub the master onto a Magnatone tape deck at +6, compressing the crap out of it while adding 5 db at 5000 cycles to everything." If that's the RVG sound, I'm sold!

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by ebozzz

I saw the AAJ article previously. I even quoted a part of it in this thread earlier. Now the thread from the SH Forums is one that I will have to read more of when time permits. Although, I don't think that it's going to change my opinion very much. Rudy's stuff just sounds good to my ears! I guess I happen to enjoy hearing recordings made by "taking three or four expensive German mics with a blistering top end boost, put them real close to the instruments, add some extra distortion from a cheap overloading mic preamp through an Army surplus radio console, put some crappy plate reverb on it, and record. Then, immediately (and for no good reason), redub the master onto a Magnatone tape deck at +6, compressing the crap out of it while adding 5 db at 5000 cycles to everything." If that's the RVG sound, I'm sold!

Cool; we all hear things the way we hear them. Personally, though I think that that negative assessment you quoted is kind of over the top (even the guy who said it admits as much further down the thread, as you'll see), I feel that not all of RVG's records sound great, and I wouldn't put him at the very top of the list of engineers (assuming I were inclined to make such a list in the first place ).

But what's more important than the precise level of RVG's engineering chops is the fact that he was responsible for engineering hundreds of tremendous musical recordings.

[ebozzz]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

Personally, though I think that that negative assessment you quoted is kind of over the top (even the guy who said it admits as much further down the thread, as you'll see), I feel that not all of RVG's records sound great, and I wouldn't put him at the very top of the list of engineers (assuming I were inclined to make such a list in the first place ).

Richard,

I actually saw what you are alluding to prior to posting that quote and hve since read the remainder of it. I was just joking around trying to make light of this conversation. It seemed to be headed in the wrong direction and I just wanted to change that before it got out of hand. It is not my intention to offend anyone.

I haven't heard everything that RVG touched. I am very impressed with the sound quality of all of the things that I own/have listened to that RVG hass been involved in which comprises mostly Blue Note releases and a few from CTI.

But what's more important than the precise level of RVG's engineering chops is the fact that he was responsible for engineering hundreds of tremendous musical recordings.

I'm with you on that. I also feel that if Rudy had not been respected by the labels/musicians/bands that he never would have had the opportunity to work on the volume of music that he has been credited with being a part of. Someone had to like him and what he was doing. If they hadn't, I can't see any reason why he would have been allowed to work on so many of what are now considered to be very important musical projects. That's why I hold him in such high esteem.

I started this thread for another reason as well. I had hoped that there would be more suggestions of other engineers. There were a few such as Joe Ferla, Tom Dowd and Alan Moulder. Unfortunately, I am not as familar with the work that they have done but if I am not mistaken, Dowd worked with the Allman Brothers. I do have a coulple of their discs around that I will have to check out (It's been a while. ). Maybe he contributed on the ones that I have. Even so, with the difference in musical styles it will not be an easy comparison IMO.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by ebozzz

I started this thread for another reason as well. I had hoped that there would be more suggestions of other engineers. There were a few such as Joe Ferla, Tom Dowd and Alan Moulder. Unfortunately, I am not as familar with the work that they have done but if I am not mistaken, Dowd worked with the Allman Brothers. I do have a coulple of their discs around that I will have to check out (It's been a while. ). Maybe he contributed on the ones that I have. Even so, with the difference in musical styles it will not be an easy comparison IMO.

Two engineers I'd think of would be Roger Nichols, who did the classic Steely Dan records, and Jan Erik Kongshaug, who has done a lot of ECM records. Whether one digs the ECM house production vibe (which I sometimes do and sometimes don't) or not, I have to say I think the engineering is pretty good.

[ebozzz]

There you go now! I've got classic Steely Dan (Aja, Royal Scam & Katy Lied). I guess it's time to spin those again. Great mixes on all three of them. It looks like he did all three. I may even have more of his work on a couple of other discs in my collection.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p...tkpu32gan1k~T4

Jan Erik Kongshaug, huh? It seems that he has been stirring the pot in quite a few kitchens. He's done a lot of work with Keith Jarret. At one time a had several Jarret LPs. I can't say that I actually heard Keith back then as well as I probably would now. I just thought it would show my guests how sophisticated I was. I don't have anything from him currently. It's something that I need to address.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p...z620r2ac48j~T4

Nice work from both of those two gentlemen but the total volume from both of them still pales in comparison to Rudy.....

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p...cec9757krkt~T4

I wonder how many quality engineers were available back during RVG's heyday? That very well could have something to do with the number of sessions he worked.

[jerry]

Tom Dowd had a great pedigree besides rock, he also did seminal albums by Mingus, Coltrane and Ray Charles to name just a few.

[ebozzz]

Originally Posted by jerry

Tom Dowd had a great pedigree besides rock, he also did seminal albums by Mingus, Coltrane and Ray Charles to name just a few.

Thanks Jerry. I've got some Ray and several of Trane that I will give a listen to. I'm am sad to say that the only Mingus title that I own is Pithecanthropus Erectus. Shame on me!

[The Owl]

Originally Posted by metalguy2

Rudy Van Gelder recorded jazz way better than all of the new guys who are doing it today... Seriously.. I find that all the old stuff sounds way better than the new stuff coming out!

Amen brutha!!!!!!!

What's so amazing is that so many of those great old jazz albums were done completely live with not a lot of mic's, just that they were well placed and everything running through tubes for the most part.

[jerry]

Originally Posted by ebozzz

Thanks Jerry. I've got some Ray and several of Trane that I will give a listen to. I'm am sad to say that the only Mingus title that I own is Pithecanthropus Erectus. Shame on me!

Your in luck ebozzz, Pithencanthropus is one of the Atlantic LPs that Dowd engineered.

[ebozzz]

Originally Posted by jerry

Tom Dowd had a great pedigree besides rock, he also did seminal albums by Mingus, Coltrane and Ray Charles to name just a few.

I just researched Dowd a little. He did Giant Steps? Nice work!

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p...ori287c05ja~T4

[ebozzz]

Originally Posted by jerry

Your in luck ebozzz, Pithencanthropus is one of the Atlantic LPs that Dowd engineered.

There were no notes on the liner indicating the engineer. That one is going in right now!