Santana's New CD, "Shaman"

Boplicity · #1 10-22-2002, 06:56 PM

Has anybody bought Santana's new CD "Shaman" yet? It went on sale today. I was planning to buy it, but got sidetracked with other responsibilities.

If anyone has it, please give me a heads up on your opinion of it.

Freaky Fender · #2 10-22-2002, 07:06 PM

i havn't heard much of it, but from my guess, i would think the producers are trying to imatate Supernatural

Boplicity · #3 10-22-2002, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Freaky Fender
i havn't heard much of it, but from my guess, i would think the producers are trying to imatate Supernatural

That's my guess, too, being as Santana plays with Michele Branch and some other pop stars. I did like "Supernatural", however.

I guess I can forgive Santana for trying to cash in on a winning formula and feather his retirement nest. If this CD is as good as the last, I will like it. If, however, it turns out to be a poor imitation of the last, I will be very disappointed.

JimK · #4 10-22-2002, 08:51 PM

...I sure wish I could locate a copy of Caravansarari.

And on a tangent, 'cause Santana is such a huge Coltrane fan(Don't believe me? Check out Love, Surrender, Devotion or Illuminations)-
A 2-cd box of A Love Supreme is due out next Tuesday...disc 2 is a LIVE version of ALS(kinda rare).

Boplicity · #5 10-22-2002, 10:40 PM

Actually Ido believe you about Santana's Coltrane connection. I once saw an interview in which he creditied some of his jazz heroes. Maybe some day he'll do a CD in which he invites jazz musicians to play with him instead of pop and hip hop stars. Of course, the danger would be that his record company would encourage him to have the "K word" guy rather than, say, Dave Holland or Chic Corea or Herbie Hancock.

XavierG · #6 10-22-2002, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JimK
...I sure wish I could locate a copy of Caravansarari.

Ah yes, one of my favorites too, if only because it's got "Song of the Wind" in it. I also like all his 'Devadip' stuff, but that's 'cause I'm weird (it's true, my kids tell me so every day). The one I'd like to get my hands on is "Borboletta". To think I owned every single one of his albums until they (along with about 200 other albums I owned) were stolen from a storage locker in the late 80's.

I can't say that I like the direction he's taken, but I too can understand why he did it. His last album was much too commercial for my taste. I hear that the new one is in the same vein.

Boplicity · #7 10-22-2002, 10:55 PM

JimK and Xavier G, both "Caravansarai" and "Borboleta" are available on Amazon.com. I just checked.

XavierG · #8 10-22-2002, 10:56 PM

Thanks, JO! I'm off to spend some money.

DigMe · #9 10-22-2002, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boplicity
Maybe some day he'll do a CD in which he invites jazz musicians to play with him instead of pop and hip hop stars. Of course, the danger would be that his record company would encourage him to have the "K word" guy rather than, say, Dave Holland or Chic Corea or Herbie Hancock.

Well he did do the above-mentioned Love-Devotion-Surrender with John McLaughlin and some other jazz fusion guys (Cobham, Hammer). Not exactly straightahead stuff but they covered A Love Supreme and Naima.

brad cook

JimK · #10 10-23-2002, 05:52 AM

Thanks, Brad.

JO-
Check out the personnel on Santana's Swing Of Delight-
Ron Carter, Tony Williams, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock...that's the heart & soul of Miles' killer '60s outfit, right?

Also, Dave Holland played on Illuminations(along with Alice Coltrane).

Thanks, too, for the head's up on Caravansarai...for a long while, it was OOP.

Bruce Lindfield · #11 10-23-2002, 06:00 AM

I have both Caravanserai and Borboletta on CD - used to own them both on vinyl as well!!

Caravanserai is my favourite all-time Santana album - Stone Flower a favourite all-time song. I love the Jobim original but Santana actually improves on this!

I also love "Every Step of the Way" and there is an amazing moment when this huge "wall" of percussion comes in with fantastic energy!!

Borboletta is worth having for the tracks with Stanley Clarke and Airto - the Tale of a Fisherman is great!

Boplicity · #12 10-23-2002, 12:11 PM

This question about Santana's evolution as a musician comes to mind. As he did at one time record with jazz luminaries, but seems to have left that behind in his past and moved on to other more accessible music with a broader commercial appeal, is it because he preferred the money more commercial work provides (hence he "sold out") or is it because he genuinely prefers playing more commercial music even though he still has an abiding appreciation of jazz?

My take would be that he genuinely likes to play music having a broader appeal, not just because it pays handsomely, but because at his age, he just enjoys it more and feels energized and rejuvenated working with some of today's top young pop and rock stars.

I say that because Santana does not strike me as a pragmatic cold-blooded cynical musician attempting to grab every last penny he can get from his music. He has often emphasized the spiritual side of life. Maybe he feels a greater sense of spirituality in his less jazz oriented music. He appears to do what he wants because he can. Maybe one day much, much later, he might return to a deeper jazz based style...if he so desires.

JMX · #13 10-23-2002, 12:34 PM

I think I heard enough of Santana during the last year that it lasts for the rest of my life.
Next.

[EDIT] The next being the new Opeth - Deliverance - released on Nov. 11th.

JimK · #14 10-23-2002, 04:46 PM

Actually, his MTV/'80s stuff(e.g. "Hold On") was pretty commercial & maybe even more listener-friendly than the current material.

Any guy that gets up onstage at any of these "awards" shows(cough-cough) & thanks John Coltrane...is "OK" with me.

Boplicity · #15 10-23-2002, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Josh Walsh
I love what Carlos is about. I'm definitely picking up the new one.

I bought "Shaman" this afternoon and have been listening to it over and over, especially some songs. The only thing I don't particularly care for is the Placido Domingo song "Novus." Somehow his operatic tenor doesn't quite fit in with this group of performers. It kind of jars me and seems out of place on this CD, maybe because of the style. That is just my opinion. Anyone else is entitled to theirs if they are huge fans of Domingo.

I was glad that Santana included some songs that were more in keeping with his traditional style such as "Aye, Aye, Aye" and "Adouma."

Oh, another disappointment is the Macy Gray song. I have to listen to it some more, though. Maybe it will grow on me with time.

Santana will probably have at least three radio and MTV/VH-1 hits off this CD. The Michelle Branch song "The Game of Love" already is a hit. Then I think the Chad Kroeger song "Why Don't You and I" will be next. Then maybe the Dido song, "Feels Like Fire." That doesn't mean I think they are the very best songs here, but the songs with most radio potential.

Between "Supernatural" and "Shaman", I may like this one slightly better, but it is too soon to tell. I certainly don't regret having bought this CD. Besides for every CD sold of the first one-million, 25 cents will be donated to Santana's Milagro (Miracle) foundation for disadvanatged children.

Bruce Lindfield · #16 10-24-2002, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boplicity
This question about Santana's evolution as a musician comes to mind. As he did at one time record with jazz luminaries, but seems to have left that behind in his past and moved on to other more accessible music with a broader commercial appeal, is it because he preferred the money more commercial work provides (hence he "sold out") or is it because he genuinely prefers playing more commercial music even though he still has an abiding appreciation of jazz?

I don't think this is the case - my view is that he is a genuine "nice guy" who is flattered that all these people want to play with him.

I think he is happy to play with any good musicians and it's not like he had the "BackStreet Boys" or similar on that album - each guest was/is a good musician in their own right.

As Jim said - if you take earlier Santana albums they were always seen as a fairly commercial fusion of rock and Latin. In fact if you take the Supernatural album as a whole there is probaly more "authentic" Latin American music on it than some of the earlier albums.

So it starts with "Taleo" in Spanish and tracks like "Corazon Espinado" written by F. Olvera would be at home on many Salsa compilations.

Having studied Latin Percussion recently with Brazilians and other experts, in workshops run for my band; my view is that the percussion on
SuperNatural is almost certainly better than the earlier Santana albums - which were more rock than anything else, with congas "bolted on"!!

dancehallclasher · #17 10-24-2002, 09:50 AM

i liked supernatural, despite all the hype, airplay and subsequent backlash. didn't change the fact that 1) there were lots of great pop songs on it and 2) santana's among the best guitarists ever.

and, of course, it gave me a warm fuzzy feeling to see him beat the snot out of the backstreet boys etc. at the grammys.

Boplicity · #18 10-24-2002, 10:21 AM

Clasher, I think you'll like "Shaman" too, which is in many ways a sort of second disc to "Supernatural."

JimK · #19 10-24-2002, 11:39 AM

...so I go to the huge record store here in Va. Beach today to buy Caravansarai.

Nope, wasn't to-be; the dreaded "Not-In-Stock".
They did have about 40-50 copies of Shamans, though.

Boplicity · #20 10-25-2002, 11:21 AM

Here's kind of a funny story in the "Well, I guess I've been told" department. In my comments above on "Shaman" I stated that I felt the Placido Domingo song "Novus" did not fit in well with the album and liked it the least of the songs on the CD.

I just read an interview with Carlos Santana at Amazon.com in which he discusses "Shaman." Asked which song was his personal favorite on the CD, guess what he said. Yeah! He likes "Novus" the best!!