So my gut feeling tells me we're gonna get screwed...

[MakiSupaStar]

My DJ and I were invited to remix a song by a very popular electronica act, and while this is not really my genre of music (my DJ comes from this world, but our collaborative work is strictly dub reggae type of stuff), I laid down a bassline for it, and my DJ and I came up with some samples and loops to throw on it and we put together a song for them. We're pretty happy with it, but I have this nagging feeling they're going to say thanks, give us no credit (or money for that matter), and put their names on it. They're releasing a new album and are going to release an album of remixes of the same songs concurrently (one of those remixes is ours), kind of like what Beck did with Guerro and Guerrolito. My DJ is the main point of contact on all this. They sent us the wav files for the drums, bass, and vocal samples, and we turned it in today, so we have evidence of correspondence, but I can't help but notice I have this sinking gut feeling like we're going to get the shaft.

If they don't use it, I'm fine, and I half expect a "thanks for coming out kids..." kind of response, but....

I won't release the name of the act in good faith, I'll see if I can put together an MP3 link of the song too if people want to hear it, but I'm more interested in what other people have gone through and experienced. Am I just over reacting? Anyone else have experience in this area?

EDIT: Okay, here are some clips.

The first version gives you a better idea of what the drums and bass sounds like. There are some of the vocal samples on there too.

http://soundcloud.com/downanddirty/c...anddirty-remix



The second version is what my DJ put together. He shortened the song up, cleaned up the mix, and changed up the vocal samples. Only complaint is that he hacked the dub section a little bit. He cut it in the middle of the bass progression that I came up with. Most people don't notice, but I do. If they like the song we'll fix this when we send them the .wav version.

http://soundcloud.com/downanddirty/c...ndsystem-remix

[DeluxeRed]

That's the risk of dabbling on the Dark Side, eh?

Kinda like those cut-and-paste term papers. Pretty tough to nail down who did what, but you're pretty sure it wasn't written by the guy who turned it in...

Good luck with that, and let us know how it goes.

[Joe Gress]

How hard did you work on it? Time spent?

[hover]

you did this all without contract / documentation?

[UncleFluffy]

register copyright on your bass track?

[jwbassman]

That does sound sketchy. Especially if you had no written contract. If the thing blows up as a hit you may be missing out on some royalties if you had any creative license.

[hover]

are you an ASCAP or BMI affiliate? You very well should be for this type of thing...you need to cover your ass and register your work.

[MakiSupaStar]

Originally Posted by Joe Gress

How hard did you work on it? Time spent?

I've been working on this thing solid for about two weeks. There were a couple of weekends in there where I put in a solid 12 hours each down recording my stuff, dialing in my pedals to a sound that I wanted and all that good stuff. My DJ probably put in close to this amount of time with it too. We kind of approached this idea that if they accept it and release it, that they'd at least give us credit in the linear notes or something, some kind of money would be great too. Of course, none of this is written down. This is another reason for my uneasy feeling.

My DJ only gave them an MP3 copy so they can't use it for release. He seems to think this is fine. Still he comes from this weird world of DJ's and stuff and has released stuff before, and I come from the more traditional music side of things. DIY recordings and stuff like that. So... I don't know man, it's just one of those spidey senses things.

[jojobean39]

I would copyright it, as someone said before. Then don't say anything. And if they try to steal it, you are covered.

One of the most memorable things from college was when my professor told me to get EVERYTHING in writing. If you don't you'll get screwed. Now here at work, I annoy the crap out of everyone because I keep meticulous records. But I never get taken advantage of either.

I would also include wording in any communication between you guys that makes it evident that you are not just doing this out of the kindness of your heart. Save it in your email folder and never delete it.

[EricF]

How's your stock of lube? You might need some soon.

[Lurker79]

If you feel it, you're probably right and it is so easy now to get material exactly the way you are describing it. One can take what you do, have any dj cut it up with live or something, add other drums and highs, then it's theirs. All with a few seconds of clean bass on an mp3.

[UncleFluffy]

Originally Posted by jojobean39

One of the most memorable things from college was when my professor told me to get EVERYTHING in writing. If you don't you'll get screwed. Now here at work, I annoy the crap out of everyone because I keep meticulous records. But I never get taken advantage of either.

+1

If it's business, get it in writing. Just say "hey, I'd rather we get something in writing - after all, this is business, isn't it?".

Never do business with anyone who finds this offensive.

[Jared Lash]

Yeah, I think if they wanted to be scumbaggy about it, they certainly could screw you over.

What are the licensing agreements on remixes? Can you post it on your website/MySpace (with appropriate credit given) even if they "pass" on using your remix? At least that would give some public visibility to the work you did and maybe prevent them from ripping you off?

It's a tough situation and there's no real hard line stance you can take since it could potentially mean exposure and money for you if they like your mix.

Hmm. . .

[MakiSupaStar]

Originally Posted by hover

are you an ASCAP or BMI affiliate? You very well should be for this type of thing...you need to cover your ass and register your work.

Yeah, so here's the problem. We're only responsible for the remix. It's their song that they gave us tracks too. We rebuilt MOST of the bassline, part of it we kept, and the part that was theirs I redid with my bass sound mixed with theirs for tonal consistency reasons. The original bassline sounded like a sample that was reversed on the part that we replaced (we didn't like it), but the drums are live drums from a session player hired by the act. The vocal samples were provided by them so we assume they have rights to those things. Once we put everything in place, my bass mixed with their drums, and our arrangement (cutting and splicing) of their vocals, my DJ set the levels and remixed it down to a final version. So it's kind of a collaboration of sorts. Are we even entitled to anything? I kind of look at it like they're throwing us (a couple of nobodies) a bone. All I hope to gain from this is the opportunity to do more work with this act or others and perhaps a little nod in the linear notes. I don't know. I'm totally in unknown territory here.

[Jared Lash]

I don't know anything about copyright law, but assuming they own the original rights to the song, I don't think you'd have a leg to stand on. The only parts of a song that are "copyrightable" are the lyrics and whatever constitutes the "main melody". They didn't agree to pay you an hourly rate as session musicians and they didn't agree to buy the results of your work so I'd guess you're really at their mercy. Hopefully they dig what you guys did and do the right thing. Especially since it sounds like all you guys want is a little recognition and/or a bit of money if it gets used.

Best of luck.

[MakiSupaStar]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

I don't know anything about copyright law, but assuming they own the original rights to the song, I don't think you'd have a leg to stand on. The only parts of a song that are "copyrightable" are the lyrics and whatever constitutes the "main melody". They didn't agree to pay you an hourly rate as session musicians and they didn't agree to buy the results of your work so I'd guess you're really at their mercy. Hopefully they dig what you guys did and do the right thing. Especially since it sounds like all you guys want is a little recognition and/or a bit of money if it gets used.

Best of luck.

Yeah, I guess at this point if they use it and don't give us any recognition or anything, I'll just chalk it up to lesson learned and we'll continue working on our own material.

[hover]

You're still a collaborator on the works. As a result you have rights to your intellectual property. You are entitled as such if the works are used and profited from.

[UncleFluffy]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

I don't know anything about copyright law, but assuming they own the original rights to the song, I don't think you'd have a leg to stand on. The only parts of a song that are "copyrightable" are the lyrics and whatever constitutes the "main melody". They didn't agree to pay you an hourly rate as session musicians and they didn't agree to buy the results of your work so I'd guess you're really at their mercy. Hopefully they dig what you guys did and do the right thing. Especially since it sounds like all you guys want is a little recognition and/or a bit of money if it gets used.

Best of luck.

That's not my understanding, but my experience of IP law is not primarily in this field so I bow to your greater experience with a side comment to the OP of "talk to a lawyer, just in case".

Even if that's so, couldn't Maki release the bass track as a "song in itself" (just put it up on myspace, their server logs are datestamped) and therefore get protection?

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by UncleFluffy

That's not my understanding, but my experience of IP law is not primarily in this field so I bow to your greater experience with a side comment to the OP of "talk to a lawyer, just in case".

Even if that's so, couldn't Maki release the bass track as a "song in itself" (just put it up on myspace, their server logs are datestamped) and therefore get protection?

Yeah, I'm not a lawyer and I don't even play one on the internet. But while putting up the bass track would prove he wrote it I don't think it would get him anywhere if this act decided to rip off his work on the remix.

Just ask Flea, who wrote the bassline for "Bust A Move" which turned out to be THE melody and groove of a #1 song and got paid $200 for the effort. Later the record company's lawyers claimed that he was told exactly what to play while Flea's version is that he created the line himself. Regardless, with nothing written down it he got no songwriting credit and basically no money.

[Happynoj]

Originally Posted by hover

You're still a collaborator on the works. As a result you have rights to your intellectual property. You are entitled as such if the works are used and profited from.

This ^

Anyone who plays on a song is entitled to some royalties from it.