Steely Dan - Any good?

[stretchcat]

Originally Posted by wwittman

hmmm is Steely Dan any good.

in cases of poisoning, if i need to induce vomiting they often do the trick

seriously, i find them the most souless, sterile, pointless, wanky, self-indulgent records i've ever heard.

without redeeming social value

Glad to see that the musical director for Cyndi Lauper digs Steely Dan.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by stretchcat

Glad to see that the musical director for Cyndi Lauper digs Steely Dan.

He's a guitarist - let's 'out' him for playing "wha wha guitar" !!

Besides, the co-writer of this song, obviously has nothing to learn from Becker and Fagan :

"Every woman's a Madonna; every woman's a whore
You can try to reduce me but I'm so much more
I don't want to be your mother; won't be shoved in a drawer
'Cause every woman's a Madonna, every woman's a whore, that's right"

[supermonkey]

Now, now, ladies and gents. To each their own.
Except for the Dan, which should be force-fed to all musicians.

Katy Lied is an amazing record. Bad Sneakers, Doctor Wu, Throw Back the Little Ones, etc. Loads of musical and lyrical triumphs. That's a hard record, IME, to get people on to, though. Definitely not the one I'd recommend a newcomer pick up first, as it puts almost all their wacko quirks right up front, both writing- and recording-wise.
But to be honest, I really prefer Royal Scam and before to the Aja/Gaucho period. I still love both those records, but if I have the SD catalog laid out before me, I will pick Pretzel Logic first off the stack, every time.

Here's one reason behind this (as if this thread isn't long enough already):
Frank Zappa might have catgorized much of Gaucho's recording process as "cocaine decisions". I mean, the whole quantizing-the-primitively-digitally-recorded-drums thing -- that was just not a good call, sonically or musically speaking. B & F have both acknolwedged it, too. Of course, it didn't keep them from using drum machines on "11 Tracks... " and "Kamakiriad".

Those are the kinds of things that make people hate hate hate them. I just consider it an unfortunate tendency of theirs. Again, to each their own.

[any-major-dude]

When I got my hands on Everything Must Go (2003), I nearly fainted when I saw Becker on the back cover holding his Sadowsky bass. So cool to see him give a nod to the bass like that. It is among my favorite Steely Dan albums simply because Becker plays most (or all) of the basses on the songs. I love the earthiness of the bass on EMG.

Seeing them live is great as well, Tom Barney...damn!

I have a live recording (Camden 2000 or 2003) where Becker says his favorite place in the band IS bass, said during the player introductions. The only way I know of to hear Becker playing bass is the previously mentioned SD, Becker's 11TOW, DF's Kamakiriad (check On the Dunes), and on early tour boot's like 1974 for which he played bass, not guitar.

Hey...it's all good. -- Tim

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by any-major-dude

When I got my hands on Everything Must Go (2003), I nearly fainted when I saw Becker on the back cover holding his Sadowsky bass. So cool to see him give a nod to the bass like that. It is among my favorite Steely Dan albums simply because Becker plays most (or all) of the basses on the songs. I love the earthiness of the bass on EMG.

Seeing them live is great as well, Tom Barney...damn!

I have a live recording (Camden 2000 or 2003) where Becker says his favorite place in the band IS bass, said during the player introductions. The only way I know of to hear Becker playing bass is the previously mentioned SD, Becker's 11TOW, DF's Kamakiriad (check On the Dunes), and on early tour boot's like 1974 for which he played bass, not guitar.

Hey...it's all good. -- Tim

There are lots of examples of Becker's playing... and writing. Chuck Rainey said the bassline for "Josie" was Becker's. I still like a lot of his early work. "Deacon Blues", while not flashy, is some work I'd be proud to call my own.

[mr e]

check out these SD DEMOS and more...

a couple a pages back someone asked about The SD writing method

[wwittman]

Glad to see a diversity of opinion is always welcomed! <g>

so the only 'acceptable' answer to "is Steely Dan any good?" is "yes"?

Sorry if some of you think my credentials don't "entitle me" to an opinion.. i obviously disagree and moreover don't disdain YOUR opinion based on your work.
One doesn't have to be in the business at all to have an opinion... and all opinions have equal validity to me as they're all OPINIONS.

>>Besides, the co-writer of this song, obviously has nothing to learn from Becker and Fagan :

I quite agree.
But were we discussing songwriting? or the BAND, which mostly means their records?
I still find their records utterly devoid of anything approaching feeling.
Someone else mentioned their compulsive 'fixing' of everything and their need to control everything (including some exceptional musicians they hire)...
all this contributes to the result.
Which I find cold in the extreme.

They're certainly the darlings of a certain set... but not EVERYONE likes them.
I think Chevy Chase has it right.

[stretchcat]

wwittman, You are certainly entitled to an opinion. I suppose that I couldn't believe that you could be so adamant about your disdane for Steely Dan given the fact that you are obviously a "pro". I didn't really like Steely Dan very much when I first tried to listen to them and I couldn't understand why some individuals that I knew that were studio pros went so crazy over them. Later, after I began working on some projects of my own and getting away from playing jazz so much, it hit me. Those are recordings are fascinating to me because of the amount of nitpicking that went on. To my ears, there's a lot to be learned from them. Having said all that, I don't consider myself a fanatic or anything and I don't listen to them because I feel that I am "supposed to". I really didn't want to like them, but I can keep coming back and I learn something new every time. That is something that I would like do be able to do in my own musical endeavors - to create something that someone could listen to many times and still be interesting.

[MikeBass]

Originally Posted by therealting

All I remember was that one of the backing singers was VERY cute, the one standing in the middle of the three.

And I thought I was the only one who noticed her!!!
Smoking hot!!! Did you see the VH1 Storytellers or the Plush Jazz Party, 'cause in one (can't remember which) she was wearring leather pants with a little belly shirt.........my oh my! When they showed her, forgot all about Steely Dan

BTW, one of the other back-up singers is married to a semi famous drummer, anyone know who?!!!???? Her name is Cynthia Calhoon-William Calhoon from Living Color. Just more usless info floating around in my head!

[VinceLovesF]

I love Alive in America....

[jb64]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

There are lots of examples of Becker's playing...

Also, check him out on Rickie Lee Jones' "Flying Cowboys" CD. He's on the title track plus, he produced the album.

Carl

[any-major-dude]

Originally Posted by VinceLovesF

I love Alive in America....

Most definitely........my fav. Green Earrings rendition....Chambers on drums, Barney on bass. The thing clicks and esp. love the instrumental section where Chambers drops in a few choice toms in the unexpected places. I always think of a Dirty Harry -esque car chase when I listen to Green Earrings.

Still looking for a lefty Warwick 5 string.....

[therealting]

Originally Posted by MikeBass

And I thought I was the only one who noticed her!!!
Smoking hot!!! Did you see the VH1 Storytellers or the Plush Jazz Party, 'cause in one (can't remember which) she was wearring leather pants with a little belly shirt.........my oh my! When they showed her, forgot all about Steely Dan

I'd love to watch that video again... for the music, of course, *ahem ahem*.

Awww, who am I kidding...

If anyone can confirm that this show is available on DVD, I'll buy it now. For the music, of course.

[any-major-dude]

Originally Posted by therealting

I'd love to watch that video again... for the music, of course, *ahem ahem*.

Awww, who am I kidding...

If anyone can confirm that this show is available on DVD, I'll buy it now. For the music, of course.

Here is her bio and pics on the dan site...
http://www.steelydan.com/2kband.html#cleonhart

The Plush Lounge show is on DVD.

[therealting]

That's her!



She is a cutie.

http://www.carolynleonhart.com

[therealting]

Oh, and how could I forget (got distracted, obviously)...

My Citizen 4-CD set arrived in the mail today! I am just listening to the tail end of disc one... these guys are awesome.

[cowsgomoo]

Originally Posted by wwittman

i find them the most souless, sterile, pointless, wanky, self-indulgent records i've ever heard.

sure, but isn't that what Steely Dan is all about? isn't self-indulgent, wanky sterility actually a big part of their artistic statement?

Luckily, I happen to love they way they do 'pointless & sterile' but I wouldn't beat anyone up who holds a different opinion... each to their own

I always made a mental connection between Steely Dan & the British synth-rock group New Order... their musical styles are totally different but they both share ultra-polished, machine-like musical backing underneath frankly ropey vocals... the 'sterile' production actually seems, by contrast, to give more humanity & a suggestion of fallibility to the crappy vocals...

[dwgriffi]

Originally Posted by wwittman

i find them the most souless, sterile, pointless, wanky, self-indulgent records i've ever heard.

without redeeming social value

You say that like it's a bad thing...: )


Seriously, it would never occur to me to put 75% of Steely Dan on my iPod (I have to leave 9 gigs for Rufus Thomas), but I do really like Aja and much of The Nightfly. But regardless, Chuck Rainey totally rules. In fact, I think that's what I'm always listening to on the cuts I like. I never tire of listening to Rainey.


D