This SURELY is plagiarism... German band Wohlstandskinder vs Dream Theater

[champbassist]

You guys might have heard the popular instrumental "The Ytse Jam" by Dream Theater. If not, here it is:

xxx

Now just listen to the first few seconds of the song "Sonnenbrillengestell" by the German band Wohlstandskinder

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The bone of contention is the opening riff: the notes are pretty much identical. In fact, it's even IN THE SAME KEY! The tone, too, seems quite similar. I'm a bit late in talking about this, I suppose, since the German song is from 1995

Your opinions? As some people seem to be having difficulty understanding my question it's this: are the two opening riffs close enough for us to consider that the German band plagiarized?

[animus.terry005]

Very similar (same) as far as I can tell in 8 seconds or so of playing

[champbassist]

Originally Posted by animus.terry005

Very similar (same) as far as I can tell in 8 seconds or so of playing

That starting line is the main (if I may say so) identifying riff of Ytse Jam.

I may add that the riff in question by the German band is in a different time signature from the DT riff and I understand that. But the similarities are glaring, still.

[JtheJazzMan]

Mountain out of a molehill.

[champbassist]

Originally Posted by JtheJazzMan

Mountain out of a molehill.

Whatever you say mate, but the riff is identical. That's the whole point. Maybe you don't know/understand it but that's a signature Dream Theater riff.

Edit: well, almost identical.

[calebbarton]

Well its not identical. Its freaking close but NOT identical.

[champbassist]

Originally Posted by calebbarton

Well its not identical. Its freaking close but NOT identical.

Yup! I say 'almost' identical I did say the time signatures are different which implies that I don't say it's 100% the same but both the riffs are based off the D harmonic minor scale and use the notes in identical fashion.

[JtheJazzMan]

This is just how music develops. Dont pretend dream theatre invented something so utterly original that they were not inspired by melodies they have heard. It seems as though you look up to DT as an authority.

This happens everywhere throughout music throughout history. The key is to become an educated and varied listener so you understand the journey different artists undertake, and what they are inspired by, rather than being up in arms about who "owns" what music.

[illmusician]

did you care to read liner notes of DT album? They frequently borrow riffs from other bands like Metallica. They usually give credit, or did you steal the song from the band by downloading it?

[champbassist]

Originally Posted by illmusician

did you care to read liner notes of DT album? They frequently borrow riffs from other bands like Metallica. They usually give credit, or did you steal the song from the band by downloading it?

Wait. This question isn't about what Dream Theater do/did. I'm asking your opinions on if the songs I put forth are close enough to be considered plagiarized.

Please stay on topic. Or don't post.

[RFord04]

Yeah, I'd say that is definitely a blatant rip-off, but I doubt DT would ever have cared enough about it to take any sort of legal action.

[champbassist]

Originally Posted by RFord04

Yeah, I'd say that is definitely a blatant rip-off, but I doubt DT would ever have cared enough about it to take any sort of legal action.

Thank you for staying on topic!

[JimmyM]

ya, definitely a rip, but one that dt would have a hard time proving in court under the legal definition. never understood ripping off bands and songs that don't sell in order to make a new song that won't sell.

[champbassist]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

ya, definitely a rip, but one that dt would have a hard time proving in court under the legal definition.

Yes, indeed. Even I was thinking the same.

[RFord04]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

ya, definitely a rip, but one that dt would have a hard time proving in court under the legal definition. never understood ripping off bands and songs that don't sell in order to make a new song that won't sell.

It's probably simply a matter of admiration for the song. Not a dig on you, but sometimes we musicians do make decisions (be they pretty bad ones at times) that aren't completely based on how much money it will make us. You're probably right about them not being able to prove it in court though.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by RFord04

It's probably simply a matter of admiration for the song. Not a dig on you, but sometimes we musicians do make decisions (be they pretty bad ones at times) that aren't completely based on how much money it will make us.

beats making decisions on trying to win magazine polls, as mike portnoy does.

[Munjibunga]

Maybe "Sonnenbrillengestel" is German for "Ytse Jam", and they're just doing a cover.

[champbassist]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

beats making decisions on trying to win magazine polls, as mike portnoy does.

Even I read that (somewhere on TB). No doubt he overplays quite often, as do Petrucci and Rudess!

I don't really care about bands suing other bands over financial gains/losses due to plagiarism. For me it's more about a band stealing someone else's music and crediting itself and not the original composers. That violation of creative rights is all that matters, for me.

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Maybe "Sonnenbrillengestel" is German for "Ytse Jam", and they're just doing a cover.

Nope! Apparently, it means Sunglasses' Frame

[oerk]

Originally Posted by champbassist

Apparently, it means Sunglasses' Frame

That's right.

[Unrepresented]

Eh, they're both ripping off Deep Purple.