Tool's Forty Six & Two: Disortion on the Bass?

agreatheight · #1 01-30-2006, 06:09 AM

I have been having a bit of a back and forth with another TB'er about the Tool song Forty Six and Two off of the Aenima record. I think some of the bass parts are distorted, notably the chorus and outro, and he is pretty sure there is no distortion at all on the song.

Quote:

Originally Posted by agreatheight

Forty Six and Two? No distortion on the bass? It sounds to me there's distortion on the bass on the choruses and most definitely on the outro. The bass sounds like a T-Rex farting. Am I wrong?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbirdbassist

Nope, It's possible he could have been using a Sans Amp. But there is no distortion on that song. The only one he used back then was a Pro Co RAT anyway, and you would know when a RAT was on or not. That song is pure Stingray my friend.

After listening again, I STILL HEAR BASS DISTORTION, lol. Help! Can anyone take a listen and break this tie?

bassman275 · #2 01-30-2006, 07:40 AM

Hey,I get that same distortion by cranking my AMPEG.When I saw that song live it was the gui**ar playing the distortion parts but,the bass for sure has major tube distortion.I always thought that He(bassist) was switching cleanish and super overdrive for thost parts till, I saw it done live.

Petary791 · #3 01-30-2006, 08:05 AM

It's more like overdrive than distortion. Tbird's answers are the most logical. The reason why it sounds "distorted" is because of technique, not effects.

agreatheight · #4 01-30-2006, 09:33 AM

I'm a little bit confused. Isn't distortion distortion, whether you get it by pushing an amp too hard or by using a specific device to get it? And isn't overdrive distortion, just milder in flavor?

Matt Till · #5 01-30-2006, 10:44 AM

Overdrive sounds totally different. Distortion is more often than not an abrasive sound. Overdrive can be, but it's usually much warmer/more natural sounding.

Tbirdbassist · #6 01-30-2006, 12:48 PM

If you ever saw Tool live, or have seen videos from Tool. You'd know that Justin plays his basses like a redneck beats his wife, HARD. (if this is offensive mods, I'm sorry)

The song was recorded with his old Stingray 4. If you must know, he also uses Mesa Boogie amps and cabs (atleast he did live back then). Here's pics of his effects and amp rack...

(His RAT is on top along with what is believe to be a delay pedal)

Now, obviously that is not Stingray, as these pics are new. Anyway, he has access to tons of pro level recording equipment so even if we knew the exact same gear with parameters we probably wouldnt be able to sound like him. Simply because after his own Eq-ing, he gets EQed even more!

And if you need more info go here...

http://www.tooltabs.net/forum_two/viewtopic.php?t=1118

There's a full list of his effects and amps past and presumed present. Tb'er Zongeek also knows a hell of a lot and you can contact him if you need more "confirmation".

And for the love of Fender, what the hell happened to search???

Yorkiebassist · #7 01-30-2006, 01:09 PM

Doesnt he use warwicks into ampegs now?

greg · #8 01-30-2006, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkiebassist

Doesnt he use warwicks into ampegs now?

Where did you hear that?

Rumzini · #9 01-30-2006, 01:24 PM

Not funny

Rumzini · #10 01-30-2006, 01:26 PM

...and my guitarist thinks I'm silly to have seven pedal.....yet....he has a Digitech GNX whatever with about ffive thousand effects that can be tweaked to the limit.

Tbirdbassist · #11 01-30-2006, 01:28 PM

I hate multi effects units...

ArtisFallen · #12 01-30-2006, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg

Where did you hear that?

yeah seriously... he's always used a wal. always... i really really rerally really doubt he'd ever stop using them.

FaithNoMan · #13 01-30-2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtisFallen

yeah seriously... he's always used a wal. always... i really really rerally really doubt he'd ever stop using them.

He used a Stingray, then he changed to a Wal, as he wanted more midrange in his sound...

agreatheight · #14 01-31-2006, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbirdbassist

Tb'er Zongeek also knows a hell of a lot and you can contact him if you need more "confirmation."

I took Tbirdbassist's advice and dropped Zongeek a line about this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zongeek

Eric,
I listened to the song just now through some fairly good headphones.

As far as Justin and effects go: the obvious is the flanger on the 'main riff' parts. There is also, as I stated a light overdriven sound. This is probably the way his amps are set, so that's nothing.

There IS (in my opinion) some kind of distortion on the parts where he plays the D chords. It is obvious at the end of the sound and in those 2 parts in the song. It might be a fuzz or a mild OD or something like that. I am not sure what type of distortion, but it's there, to my ears anyway.

Hope this helps.

keith

Starting at 5:05 the bass plays a moving pedal tone progression (from memory D to Bb to D to F to A) against the repeating guitar motif and the bass tone gets more fuzzy. At 5:38 he really starts digging in with the pick (and yes absolutely, he really plays hard) playing now a single pedal note double stop against a moving guitar motif (from memory an open D / D an octave up simealtaneously) and the distortion becomes more pronounced. I agree that the increase in distortion is likely due to Justin's dynamic technique, but somewhere (to my ears) something is distorting.

I have a Stingray so earlier today I grabbed a pick and got a very close approximation to this sound playing through my Chandler Tube Driver into my SWR 350 head out through a Hartke 410 and SWR Big Ben. I know this is not his set up, but with moderate gain on the Chandler I got a similar tone that went from fuzzy to what I called in an earlier post a T-Rex farting. It's certainly possible he gets the distortion from his Ampeg, or maybe he's using an outboard box, I'm not sure (and never said that I was) but I still still categorize what he's getting on the CD as distortion.

Anyone got Justin's number, lol. Would be easier just to ask him!

Rumzini · #15 01-31-2006, 07:54 AM

OK...questions. Regarding the Mesa and G-K amps. Are these not stand alon heads...not power amps? It shows that he has the Ampeg and Demeter pres. Can you run a pre amp into a head? Talk about tonal control...if can.

Cougar207 · #16 01-31-2006, 11:25 AM

Yes, you can run a preamp into a head. What I think everyone is forgetting is that he send a number of signals to the board and then they are mixed by some of the best in the business. I have been able to get somewhere between the tone on Lateralus and Aenima, but never been able to nail either. I use a Mesa M-2000 with lots of upper mids and treble and the tube side with quite a bit of gain. Then add 20% mix of chorus in the loop that comes in the higher frequencies. Most of the changes you hear mid-song (at least live) are going to be technique. Just learn how to use that pick to your advantage.