What do you think of the ethics of this?

[DigMe]

Just interested in people's opinions on this.

Eventually I'll probably get a 40 or 60 gig mp3 jukebox like an iPod or something. I thought I'd probably burn my whole collection to it. Then I started thinking "After I do that I can just sell most of the CDs."

So, to those of you who recognize the ethical and legal problems with stealing music from P2P services and whatnot, do you think this is ethical? I'm not sure and I haven't decided yet. My initial thought is that I bought the CD myself so I paid the money, but then again I'm selling it so it's no longer mine. I know I'm allowed to make a copy for myself legally but does that still apply after you've sold the album? Throw out some arguments.

To people who think it's ok to download mp3s illegally - I'm not interested in your opinion on this.

brad cook

[silent method]

if you have to ask here you have probably already made up your mind that it is a bad thing to do, ethics are up to you the user you shoudnt base it on what other people think. i think you are just looking for somone to justify you keeping them on your mp3 player. if you plan to keep listening to it dont sell your rights to it.

ps. sorry i dont mean this to come off rude im just being straight foward

[Eric Grossman]

I don't see a significant difference between (A) making a copy and selling the original, and (B) keeping the original and selling a copy.
Either way, it's a breach of the artist's proprietary work. If you sell an original, or a copy, you're still depriving the artist of their rightful royalty. I wish I could say that this was my humble opinion, but it's not. It's a clear non black and white fact.

[Mon Rominee]

You legally only bought the rights to the medium itself (the physical CD). You did not legally buy the rights to copy information off it to another medium.

I do it anyway. So does practically everyone else. I say you bought the album, went the high road, and it's yours to do with as you wish.

Is it ethical that stores like Strawberries and all that sell used CD's and make a second profit off the same disc? Hell no. I wonder if they report those used sales to Soundscan. Suffice it to say I think you could sleep soundly.

[DigMe]

Originally Posted by silent method

if you have to ask here you have probably already made up your mind that it is a bad thing to do, ethics are up to you the user you shoudnt base it on what other people think. i think you are just looking for somone to justify you keeping them on your mp3 player.

Well thank you for your straightforwardness but you are incorrect.

brad cook

[DigMe]

Originally Posted by Eric Grossman

If you sell an original...you're still depriving the artist of their rightful royalty.

Really? What about buying and selling used CDs? I DO believe that is just fine. I have the right to sell a CD that I've purchased. Just like selling a Nissan car is not unethical because I'm depriving Nissan of a new sale. Now if I got a bunch of parts and made my own Nissan clones and slapped a Nissan badge on them that would definitely be unethical. I'm not arguing my original question here but I don't see how selling or buying used CDs is unethical.

brad cook

[baba]

As a whole, it seems no different than illegal downloading to me.

[burk48237]

I don't see a problem with it. #1 you purchased the music, so the artist got there royalties. #2 you have a right to copy to a more convenient format for personal use #3 When you sell the CD's used your not going to make close to full margin, your not takeing money out of the artist pocket, your selling something you puchased. #4 You lose some of the advantages of owning the CD, no jacket, no info. #5 Your not reproducing copys to sell. I have a felling it would be cheaper just to use I tunes an any new stuff you purchase, but Brad , I don't steal files and am adamitley opposed, see my post in "do you steal thread". It's no different then switching over all those albums to cassettes and selling the albums. You just found a new format you like better and decided to go with it, the technology changed and you adjusted your CD collection which you already paid for to the new format.

[baba]

..another thought.

How is that different than making a copy of each of your CDs and selling the copy? Where does this stand on the ethics-o-meter?

[DigMe]

Originally Posted by Mon Rominee

You legally only bought the rights to the medium itself (the physical CD). You did not legally buy the rights to copy information off it to another medium.

Isn't there a law that specifically allows for personal copies? Does anyone have the verbiage on that?

I do it anyway. So does practically everyone else.

That will never be part of the argument for me. Lots of people download illegal mp3s too but I don't do that.

Is it ethical that stores like Strawberries and all that sell used CD's and make a second profit off the same disc? Hell no. I wonder if they report those used sales to Soundscan. Suffice it to say I think you could sleep soundly.

I don't see how that is so clearly unethical. Selling used merchandise has been a standard practice in the world for as long as there has been new merchandise. I believe the courts have also upheld that selling used CDs is lawful as well.

brad cook

[JimK]

Originally Posted by Mon Rominee

You legally only bought the rights to the medium itself (the physical CD). You did not legally buy the rights to copy information off it to another medium.

You're not allowed to make a copy for your own use? Even MS is "OK" with that.
Back in the daze when it was LPs, everyone made cassette copies for their cars...that was a given. Many made copies so they could keep their original LP as 'virgin' as possible.
I don't see anything wrong with that.

Brad-
IMO, it's a bad idea to load everything onto a portable device(or even a PC) & then sell everything.
Things can go belly-up, get lost, corrupted, stolen, etc...I know some of my cds would be pretty difficult to find if I hadda buy 'em all over again. Ya gotta keep your hard copy.


Just food for thought.

[Cacklingjackyl]

I think your on the highway to hell if you do it.

[bigbeefdog]

Originally Posted by DigMe

Isn't there a law that specifically allows for personal copies? Does anyone have the verbiage on that?

Yes - it's called "fair use". And from a strictly legal standpoint, it is *illegal* to make a copy for a friend, but it is *legal* to make a copy for yourself, while you own the original, then give the original to a friend.

Go figure.

[Philbiker]

Either way, it's a breach of the artist's proprietary work. If you sell an original, or a copy, you're still depriving the artist of their rightful royalty. I wish I could say that this was my humble opinion, but it's not. It's a clear non black and white fact.

I believe that is not correct. You can sell the CD and somebody else can buy it, that's no problem. The artist got the royalties on the initial sale. If this wasn't legal then places like Amazon couldn't sell used CDs.

As for the scenario you're presenting, Brad it's not fair use. You're allowed to make a copy of the music you own for carrying around like we used to do from LP to cassette and now do from CD to MP3 device, but if you sell off the CD you've sold your fair use ownership of that material as well. It's the same as downloading or distributing MP3s.

Dig me ...but don't... Bury me.

[Mon Rominee]

I stand corrected, thanks for the info.

Ronaldo

[jazzbo]

Originally Posted by JimK

Back in the daze when it was LPs, everyone made cassette copies for their cars...that was a given.

My first car was a 77 Monte Carlo. It had ... wait for it ...

an 8-track.

PIMP!

Note: This was originally a car of my fathers, I'm not old enough to own a new 77 Monte Carlo, and legally drive it. I started driving in 90.

[thomasrhoward]

Isn't it similar to copyright laws regarding software? If you purchase software and load it on your computer then sell the software or give it to someone else, you're legally obligated to uninstall it from your computer.

While fair-use laws allow for me to burn a copy of my CD to keep in my car or to protect my investment for when my daughter decides to use it as a frisbee, if I sell (or even give?) the CD away, my rights go with it.

At least that's always been my understanding.

-tom

[bigbeefdog]

Originally Posted by Philbiker

As for the scenario you're presenting, Brad it's not fair use. You're allowed to make a copy of the music you own for carrying around like we used to do from LP to cassette and now do from CD to MP3 device, but if you sell off the CD you've sold your fair use ownership of that material as well. It's the same as downloading or distributing MP3s.

Not....... necessarily.

To cloud the issue even further, there's a product you can buy called a "Music CD-R". These cost more, because a royalty fee is paid to the RIAA for each one sold, in an effort to compensate them (and the artists) for lost revenue due to copying. In the past, blank tape once carried a similar surcharge.

It could be argued that, if you copy to "royalty-paid" media, then sell off the CD, you still hold your fair use rights.

The deeper it gets, the messier it gets....

[The Golden Boy]

Originally Posted by burk48237

I don't see a problem with it. #1 you purchased the music, so the artist got there royalties. #2 you have a right to copy to a more convenient format for personal use #3 When you sell the CD's used your not going to make close to full margin, your not takeing money out of the artist pocket, your selling something you puchased. #4 You lose some of the advantages of owning the CD, no jacket, no info. #5 Your not reproducing copys to sell. I have a felling it would be cheaper just to use I tunes an any new stuff you purchase, but Brad , I don't steal files and am adamitley opposed, see my post in "do you steal thread". It's no different then switching over all those albums to cassettes and selling the albums. You just found a new format you like better and decided to go with it, the technology changed and you adjusted your CD collection which you already paid for to the new format.

I concur, but I don't view #2 as pertinent in the ethics of it.

If the recording industry had their way, they'd have you buy several copies in any different formats to suit your every situation.

[Wrong Robot]

It is a slippery slope these days. While some would argue that the .mp3 copies you make are painfully inferior and worthless to listen to, others are totally fine with them. If you look at it from that perspective though(and I have actually heard legal arguments attune to this) Creating a lesser quality copy is actually 'okay' by the word of the law. Or the spirit or the law or some such junk. I can't verify this though, it's just something a teacher of mine mentioned.