Interesting Neo Happenings...

RocketMusic · #1 03-30-2011, 03:14 PM

Supply going down, down, down... price going up, up, up...

The price of neo has gone up big time in just the past week. China recently announced it is slashing it's neo exports by 60% (and China is basically the sole producer of Neo at this point). That neo will be going instead into things like domestic power production in China.

This is basically rumor mill stuff, but we should all keep our eyes on the bass cab market. Eminence (the last major U.S. speaker manufacturer) has raised it's neo driver prices significantly, they're quoting prices that are good for only 24 hours (because the price is increasing THAT fast), and they are no longer guranteeing delivery times...

This bodes not well for the continued use of neo magnets in bass cabs in the short term. They'll stay light, but they might not stay affordable...

Here is some hard info to chew on...
China's Export Actions
Millitary Implications
Green Tech Impact

Fun times we live in!

VroomVroom · #2 03-30-2011, 04:26 PM

Very interesting stuff. I have to think supply will mate up once again with demand, though. We've had the same exact situation with China regarding two other items - steel and cement/concrete.

Nonetheless...makes me even hungrier to snap up that second AE212. Argh.

Darkstrike · #3 03-30-2011, 04:50 PM

I suppose, in a worst case scenario, it'll drive cab builders to new materials and techniques, like using Nidacore instead of wood for them, for lightness, so they can use heavier magnets.

RocketMusic · #4 03-30-2011, 04:51 PM

The short term ramifications will be interesting to see. Manufacturer's won't just decide to lose money for 6-12 months by loading their cabs with more expensive drivers and selling them at the same prices. I think it's safe to say that prices will either be going up significantly in the very near term, or various neo cabinets may simply be taken off the market altogether...

The lack of neo mining capability here is compounded by a complete lack of magnet manufacturing here, as well. Even if we magically start pulling neo out of the ground, it's going to have to be sent elsewhere to be turned into a magnet... maybe Mexico?

Danny seems to be optimistic that good old yankee ingenuity will kick in and somebody here will recognize the opportunity and start a mining operation for neo. Me? I see what a collosal a pain in the butt it is just trying to buy a building and do some minor renovations... I can't imagine the persitence, passion and, of course, cold hard cash that would have to be expended to get something done like setting up a mining operation in this country. Even if you manage to wade through the mountain of BS to get the OK to do it, you'd be mired in lawsuits and protests for the rest of your days. Who wants that level of BS in their life?

I only mention this because I spoke today with a well known cab manufacturer who is basically having to rethink his business slightly in the near term... and I don't think he's alone.

Time will tell!

Darkstrike · #5 03-30-2011, 04:55 PM

Of course, just thinking about this, but it'll surely affect some pickup makers too.

VroomVroom · #6 03-30-2011, 04:59 PM

Definite concerns in the short term for the small guys. I hope it all works out well.

Not to get all conspiracy-theorist or anything, but I agree with the ingenuity...and perhaps some good ol' fashioned palm greasing. One of the big boys will step up, and in the name of protecting our domestic interests, the mountains of BS will simply be put on the shelf (same one the small guys pick from), taking any lawsuits or protests with them. Someone will recognize that there's money to be made, and...ka-ching.

Jeez...maybe I need more coffee or something.

LilRay · #7 03-30-2011, 05:09 PM

Bah!

Stevie Ray Vaughan brought tube amps back in to the foray in an age where everyone went digital. All we need is another Jaco, saying neo stuff is for losers and bada bing back to ceramics.

Interesting thing to me is Bergantino ended his entire ceramic loaded line and now Neo has shot up. I wonder if he'll soon be "redesigning" his ceramic cabs?

God Bless, Ray

dDaddybass · #8 03-30-2011, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilRay

Bah!

Stevie Ray Vaughan brought tube amps back in to the foray in an age where everyone went digital. All we need is another Jaco, saying neo stuff is for losers and bada bing back to ceramics.

Interesting thing to me is Bergantino ended his entire ceramic loaded line and now Neo has shot up. I wonder if he'll soon be "redesigning" his ceramic cabs?

God Bless, Ray

+1

**Bipslapper** · #9 03-30-2011, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilRay

Bah!

Stevie Ray Vaughan brought tube amps back in to the foray in an age where everyone went digital. All we need is another Jaco, saying neo stuff is for losers and bada bing back to ceramics.

Interesting thing to me is Bergantino ended his entire ceramic loaded line and now Neo has shot up. I wonder if he'll soon be "redesigning" his ceramic cabs?

God Bless, Ray

Good points Brotha Ray. As a new owner of 2 Berg cabs (HT112ER and HS410), I saw this post and it caught my attention. I have been playing a Neo Gallien Krueger combo for live gigs for the past few years; Neo is nice and light.

For my limited gigging schedule (hope things pick up), the neo cabs are fine, however it feels weird using a combo of 700 watts that weighs only 50 pounds- seems strange.

I gigged out last Saturday with a 4.5lb tube amp (GB SL900) and a 83lb 4X10 Berg HS410 cab that just felt right. In my small brain (

), if the speaker cab is lighter than a paperweight than things "ain't right".
I don't mind the amp being the same as balsa wood, as long as my speaker cab doesn't get pushed aside by from the air flow of the kick drum

FWIW- my drummer called me yesterday to go over some business things and actually went out of the way to say:"Man, even though you were farther away from me than most gigs, the bass sounded awesome (Roscoe & Lull)". I think it was due to the great amp (Genz Benz Streamliner 900) and the 83lb. Berg cab.

Who knows, maybe he had too many cocktails & heard things in his head, unbeknownst to me

LilRay · #10 03-30-2011, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bipslapper

Good points Brotha Ray. As a new owner of 2 Berg cabs (HT112ER and HS410), I saw this post and it caught my attention. I have been playing a Neo Gallien Krueger combo for live gigs for the past few years; Neo is nice and light.

For my limited gigging schedule (hope things pick up), the neo cabs are fine, however it feels weird using a combo of 700 watts that weighs only 50 pounds- seems strange.

I gigged out last Saturday with a 4.5lb tube amp (GB SL900) and a 83lb 4X10 Berg HS410 cab that just felt right. In my small brain (

), if the speaker cab is lighter than a paperweight than things "ain't right".
I don't mind the amp being the same as balsa wood, as long as my speaker cab doesn't get pushed aside by from the air flow of the kick drum

FWIW- my drummer called me yesterday to go over some business things and actually went out of the way to say:"Man, even though you were farther away from me than most gigs, the bass sounded awesome (Roscoe & Lull)". I think it was due to the great amp (Genz Benz Streamliner 900) and the 83lb. Berg cab.

Who knows, maybe he had too many cocktails & heard things in his head, unbeknownst to me

Pete FWIW my Peavey 410TX weighs 96lbs.

If I gigged often, or especially on my own I'd hafta go neo. But as it is my rig is like the old 300 lb console 25 inch TV's from back in the day. Anybody besides me hafta turn them dang UHF/VHF knobs????

You knew you were the man when you could rip through em fast and land on the channels

But I'd bet that combo smoked.

And as far as neo goes, just like everything else, there's a breaking point. Still have to follow supply and demand economics.

Neo goes high enough, people will either redesign ceramics, or invent new materials. Either of which will cause the demand/price on neo to plummet like a shot duck.

God Bless, Ray

hasbeen · #11 03-31-2011, 05:34 AM

this isn't rumor. China is "controlling" the release of Neo-d.

Because of this, it is instantly became a HIGHLY volatile commodity.

Emminence has announced about a 100% price increase AND, that price is only good for the day the receive the order. At this time, nobody expects the price to go back down.....just up.

We'll have to see what happens.

dDaddybass · #12 03-31-2011, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hasbeen

this isn't rumor. China is "controlling" the release of Neo-d.

Because of this, it is instantly became a HIGHLY volatile commodity.

Emminence has announced about a 100% price increase AND, that price is only good for the day the receive the order. At this time, nobody expects the price to go back down.....just up.

We'll have to see what happens.

100%

Holy crap! That's gonna throw a monkey wrench into the works.

RocketMusic · #13 03-31-2011, 08:46 AM

Yep, it's a fairly serious situation that I think is going to have a noticeable impact in the very near future. Whoever has inventory of neo cabs (dealers AND manufacturers) can continue to sell at the current price levels. But somewhere not too far down the line, new neo drivers are going to have to be purchased... but nobody is going to commit suicide to continue offering a neo cab. Either prices will go up significantly, or another lightweight solution will be found, or we may see manufacturers reverting to ceramic magnets for a while. Time will tell!

LilRay · #14 03-31-2011, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hasbeen

this isn't rumor. China is "controlling" the release of Neo-d.

Because of this, it is instantly became a HIGHLY volatile commodity.

Emminence has announced about a 100% price increase AND, that price is only good for the day the receive the order. At this time, nobody expects the price to go back down.....just up.

We'll have to see what happens.

Good grief 100% per driver?

Retail rates on 12's can be upward of $2-300. So in essence a $550-600 1-12 will end up costing near $900.

Is the main driver in the Uber Quad Neo?

This may go beyond the realm of ridiculous.

God Bless, Ray

RocketMusic · #15 03-31-2011, 09:53 AM

Yep, the UBER series is all neo.

Did I mention I have quite a few UBER cabs in stock? And Berg AE cabs?

Nah, really, I'm not trying to stir up a rush of orders on neo cabs. Just relaying some info that is going to have a real and obvious impact on the bass cab market in the coming months...

LilRay · #16 03-31-2011, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketMusic

Yep, the UBER series is all neo.

Did I mention I have quite a few UBER cabs in stock? And Berg AE cabs?

Nah, really, I'm not trying to stir up a rush of orders on neo cabs. Just relaying some info that is going to have a real and obvious impact on the bass cab market in the coming months...

Greg, More importantly Neodymium is used a LOT in electric motors Ala a powerchair and most important electric vehicle production.

A conspiracy theorist might draw the conclusion that the electric vehicle is progressing too quickly in cost efficiency and thereby phasing out fossil fuels at too fast a pace.

Nice plug though

Now you're getting it.

God Bless, Ray

hasbeen · #17 03-31-2011, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilRay

Good grief 100% per driver?

Retail rates on 12's can be upward of $2-300. So in essence a $550-600 1-12 will end up costing near $900.

Is the main driver in the Uber Quad Neo?

This may go beyond the realm of ridiculous.

God Bless, Ray

well...it is actually a little over 100% per magnet. Then, there are other increases (steel) on top of that. The collective increase per driver should end up being less than 100%....how much though, I don't know yet.

**Ryan L.** · #18 03-31-2011, 06:21 PM

^I was going to mention it, but Roger beat me to it. Steel is also going up quite significantly as well. So I would imagine that that will have an impact as well, although not as large as the neo costs will.

markkoelsch · #19 04-01-2011, 08:39 PM

Neo's are light, but they are not going to be worth it in my opinion. Most of us lived for years with ceramics...heck, I am still using my Peavey 410 TX, and that does not phase me. I think it is simply time for most folks to stop lugging the gear the hard way and get hand trucks. It will make your life easier.

Now, I am getting the parts together for a 15/6/ Fearful, and yes, I did snag my 3015LF as soon as I hear about this.

Eminence, and all the other speaker manufacturers should just admit the reality of the situation and stop using Neo. Go back to ceramic as it is proven technology. Let the cab makers figure out how to make the cabs lighter using proper bracing and different materials.

RocketMusic · #20 04-02-2011, 11:06 AM

Jim Bergantino just made it official - the AE line will cease to exist once he's sold through his remaining inventory of AE cabs. He does not forsee neo prices coming down anytime soon, so it's on to the next thing in bass cabs for him (whatever that may be). I'll pass along any details as they become available!