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01-17-2012, 01:59 PM
|  | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | Cameron and I had a quick conversation about his solo yesterday that really helped me a lot. He said something to the effect of the main thought in his mind when playing his solo was to let the 1's breathe since they're so powerful in this tune. I listened to my first attempt at a solo, and sure enough I was playing right on top of all the 1's. And it sounded like a 3rd grader trying to solo, it was ridiculously square. 
So I've spent the past couple days fighting my bass player's instinct to nail the 1's, while also trying to more loosely follow the chords in this piece. On my first solo I was clearly following the chords very closely, and that also added to the squareness of it. There's a lot of this tune where you can just rock out in F Minor. Just catch the turnarounds where it deviates from that, and you're more likely to come up with something cool.
The tune is structured AABC. The C part sounds very much like the A part if you're not playing close attention, but several of the chords that are minor in the A sections are major in the C section. I haven't wrapped my head around what that means in terms of key changes yet, so you'll hear just 3/4 of a solo in the clip below (the AAB solo section turned out pretty nicely, but the C is currently blank). I've still got to work out some hipper licks that will help me navigate that C section less squarely...
I also amped up the drums and added some organ starting in the second A section of the solo. I wanted the rhythm section to push me a bit more as a soloist, that always helps me get out of "square" mode...
Oh, and the solo tone is me leaning pretty heavily on the neck pickup...
So for now... enjoy most of a solo.   "Little Waltz" (Ron Carter)
Last edited by RocketMusic : 01-17-2012 at 02:35 PM.
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01-17-2012, 02:40 PM
|  | Providing the Lowend for the High One | | Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bonaire, GA (near Macon) | |
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketMusic  Wow! Soloing over these changes on Day 2 was much better than Day 1. I definitely started with a different approach. Breaking the solo section up into three parts did indeed help me eat the elephant one bite at a time. But more importantly, I decided to sing each solo section before I tried to play it. I'd latch onto something that I wanted to go for, and then I'd record however many takes it took to get a good one. That lead to a lot more arpeggiation than you'll usually hear out of me, and I really dig it. I need to work more of that into my playing!
I was also on the lookout for the three sections sounding disjointed from each other. I think the AA and the B sections flow pretty smoothly, but the C section sounds a bit like it was recorded separately. I couldn't impove upon that before my brain gave out. That's for another day.
Anyway, enjoy! "Naima" (now with a decent solo!) | Really like this tune Greg! Very nice.  |
01-18-2012, 10:46 AM
| | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by JOME77 Really like this tune Greg! Very nice. | Thanks, Joe! It was nice to go back and listen to that one, that's a really pretty tune that Mr. Coltrane wrote.
I still hear a heavy emphasis on down beats in my phrasing on that one. Man, that is the hardest thing in the world for me to shake!!
I'm finding that practicing reading is really helping me with that. I'm forced to play other people's rhythms instead of my usual boring tendencies. Sooner or later, I'm hoping some of these other rhythmic tendencies start sinking in and just become natural for me...
Reading really forces you to learn the fretboard, too. It doesn't do any good to read a Bb if you don't immediately know where Bb is on the fretboard. That's both good and bad for me. On the one hand, I'm getting better at two things at once. On the other hand, I have to learn two things at the same time which is just that much harder... Boo-hoo. Wah, right?
Yesterday, I got a kick out of this short video from a Jeff Berlin clinic. Going back to listen to my solo on "Naima" and then listening to my solo on "Little Waltz", for me it is like the 60 day difference. It's "whoa, somebody got better!" |
01-18-2012, 04:51 PM
| | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | I finished up the solo late this afternoon! Working over that C section was simpler than I'd thought. It never ceases to amaze me what a day away from a song can do to make things easier to play. 
Here's the finished product: "Little Waltz" (Ron Carter) |
02-03-2012, 01:06 PM
| | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | So this one's not actually in The Real Book and there's no bass involved, but it's a pretty cool story and it is part of my ongoing effort to learn to read music.
Back in 1991, my Dad retired from the Navy after 33 years in the service. He was on the Navy base in Charleston, SC at the time, and the Navy Band there was kind enough to write a piece of music in his honor for the retirement ceremony. They also framed the first page of the song ("Professionalism, Might, And Service") and presented it to him. So I've often seen this piece of music hanging in my folk's house over the years, and I've always wondered what it would sound like.
Last Spring my folks were downsizing, so I went out to visit and help them go through all their stuff (the old keep/sell/toss exercise). I seized upon this piece of music as something that would NOT be tossed or sold. They didn't have a place for it, so it now hangs in my house instead of their's.  
It's a simple piece of music when you hear it, but sight reading it is beyond my current skills. So I took it upon myself to manually enter the notation into Sonar's sheet music editor. Sonar then turns that into a MIDI data stream that controls a nice piano synthesizer.
I've heard several people say that a good way to learn to read music is to force yourself to write out pieces of music that you know. So that's kind of what this whole exercise was all about. I didn't know the piece, but I was able to hear it in real time as I entered the notation into Sonar. That lets you associate images with sounds, and I'm finding that really helpful. And the bonus of it all is that I finally get to hear this piece of music that I've just looked at for over 20 years. That's a really nice reward.
So here it is! It's only the 1st page of the song, so it ends rather abruptly. "Professionalism, Might, And Service" (Navy Band Charleston)
Last edited by RocketMusic : 02-03-2012 at 08:33 PM.
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02-03-2012, 02:38 PM
|  | Cogito Ergo Idiot | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: SF Bay Area, CA | | | How awesome is that? Right on, Greg... |
02-03-2012, 07:27 PM
| | Registered User
Owner: LilRay's Leatherworks | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Between my Roscoe and Leather | | Cool! Glad to know Sonar can help you (us) learn to read too.
God Bless, Ray
__________________
1 Peter 1:13 Quote: |
Originally Posted by RocketMusic Ray is correct! | |
02-03-2012, 08:33 PM
| | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | Man, I came back to this after a few hours away of not listening to it, and the abscence of groove was very apparent. So a little cymbals and bass later, and at least it feels like there's something going on along with the piano now... "Professionalism, Might, And Service" (Navy Band Charleston)
And this is King Koa's maiden voyage with the Demeter preamp...
Last edited by RocketMusic : 02-03-2012 at 09:05 PM.
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02-06-2012, 05:14 PM
| | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | Cool! I found the full score in one of the boxes that my folks sent to me last summer. It's really neat to see the working copy of the music, scribbles and all. It appears to be a lightly orchestrated piece (split up amongst just a few instruments), so it might be fun to use the writer's ideas for a Bass Orchestra version of this.
Yo PacMan (or any other players in one of the services) - I'm getting more and more curious about this the more I find out about it. How common is something like this, having a service band compose a piece of music for a specific ceremony? I don't imagine it happens every day, but I bet it happens a lot more often than one would think.
My Dad's got to get this tune queued up in his new place so he can make it play whenever he enters the room like Darth Vader. That'd drive my Mom crazy.
Anyway, here's the complete score if anyone is interested. It's about 10 pages (11x17). It's in the order the folks at the copy center copied it today, which may or may not be the order it should be played in. I've yet to look at it closely enough to say how it goes together... I suspect that will be another learning exercise unto itself. http://www.rocketmusic.net/images/PMS-NOTATION.pdf |
03-17-2012, 12:14 PM
| | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | I wanted to let Doug B. hear his new Roscoe before it starts it's week-long journey across the country on Monday. I've been working on some basic tracks for "Take The A Train" in my spare time the past few days, so this morning I put some bass to it using Doug's SKB Signature V.
Sadly, the whole thing is a bit half baked (sorry, Doug! It's the production, not the bass!). The drum track has no fills or any real variety, and the keys were inspired by Steve's recent clip where he had some cool rhythmic noise going behind his fretless... unfortunately, my keys just make the whole thing sound like a weak attempt at house/electronica with a disco backbeat.
Oh, well. I am forcing myself to learn to read, and I can tell that I'm getting better at it slowly but surely... I just wish one of these tunes would turn out the way I hear it in my head. I want a funky, driving beat with a loose/swinging take on the melody on top. Maybe that combination is just a bad idea with these standards. Everytime I attempt it, I end up here.
Anyway, the bass sounds great. As Jerry says - love the bass, pardon the bassee. "Take The A Train" (Duke Ellington/Billy Strayhorn) "Take The A Train" (bass track) "Take The A Train" (melody track)
Let's look at the bass again to end on a more positive note! 
Last edited by RocketMusic : 03-17-2012 at 12:37 PM.
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03-17-2012, 01:31 PM
|  | Roscoe FANatic | | Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Jupiter FLA | | Jeez Greg - that sounds as good as it looks...
...even in your hands! 
__________________
Jim
Roscoes LG3000(#4694), LG3005(#4895), LG 3000FL(#6244), SKB3006(#4654)
6.0 Shuttle, ShuttleMax 12.0
ACME Low B-2(x2)
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03-18-2012, 04:15 PM
| | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | Well, that last one stunk up the joint a bit, and I can't have that!! I spent a few hours today creating a hipper drum track for the tune. I really started from scratch with a better beat, and then I added some rhythmic contrast using various percussion pieces. The new drums had me thinking "Weather Report", so I hope you'll indulge my Jaco quote on the front end.
I'd call all of the bass tracks "scratch tracks" for now. I was really just fleshing out my ideas, trying to get closer to what I hear in my head for this tune. Doug's bass is packed up and ready to ship tomorrow, so I broke out my Lull M5V for today's fun. I still need to finish the melody track, but I'm out of time for today. I figured I better post something today to try to redeem myself after yesterday's stinker. "Take The A Train" (Duke Ellington/Billy Strayhorn)  |
03-19-2012, 12:07 PM
| | Cogito Ergo Idiot | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: SF Bay Area, CA | | Hey Greg....nice! Go pour a Bud Light while I otherwise waste your time with some thoughts... In no particular order:
- Amazing how different the two basses sound. The Roscoe has MUCH more happening in the upper mids than I expected. The Lull just totally captures that fat, organic, woody, dare-I-say-vintage vibe.
- I loved a lot of what you did with the melody on the Roscoe track. Nice, singing quality going on there, which is perfect.
- My recommendation for the next melody track: run things until you've got it entirely under your fingers. Then, drink two more Bud Lights. Right after hitting the 'record' button....close your eyes, and don't open them until after you've played your butt off.
- Totally dig the 3:2 clave thing you have happening on the last track. Like Oliver...more, please. And maybe even frame the bass line around it, mixing long & short notes.
- Intro. Just yes on the Teen Town quote. But extend it to include either the two high-C sixteenths going into the first head, or the G-A-C-C phrase at the turn into the second head. That'll make your sneaking onto the A Train even more dramatic.
- Intro alternative. Play the Duke intro against that 3:2 clave. Watch the excitement come to life as you enter the head.
As always, thanks for the great music and terrific production quality. |
03-19-2012, 12:34 PM
| | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | | Yeah, most of these heads don't feel right under my fingers yet, they make me go places I don't usually go. I'm sure that will ultimately be a WONDERFUL thing, but in the moment it makes me sound like a 6 year old. On the bass line, I'm kinda trying to feel where to leave holes for the non-existant melody part. I'll eventually re-record both parts and hopefully have a little interaction going...
On rhythmic drumming, it's wierd... I always want to lay back to let the drums say what they're saying, that's why I end up with so many long notes in there... hmmm, I need to revisit that line of thought!
Thanks for the tips, Jerry! |
03-27-2012, 01:29 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Niagara Falls, ON, Canada | | I hadn't listened to the Lull take or read Jerry's comments until now, so Greg will have to excuse my comments over lunch today.
I think all of the recommendations from Jerry are bang on. The Teen Town intro is sweet, as is the clave groove.
I'm looking forward to hearing what this evolves into | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | 
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