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09-29-2010, 01:14 PM
| | Registered User
Owner: LilRay's Leatherworks | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Between my Roscoe and Leather | | WOW!!!!
At least you understand it.  And your tackling stuff lightyears away from me.
God Bless, Ray
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1 Peter 1:13 Quote: |
Originally Posted by RocketMusic Ray is correct! | |
09-29-2010, 01:20 PM
|  | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | Oh, you can do what I just did! It's just a bunch of discreet exercises in mapping out individual chords. That's MUCH easier to do slowly and methodically like I did than it is to have to do it on the fly (which I have repeatedly failed miserably at for over a week now).
Take the first chord: Fmaj7. Do you know what that is? Can you tell me the four essential notes to create it (assuming I want to hear the 1, 3, 5 & 7) ?
Once you do that, move on to the next chord... lather, rinse, repeat. |
09-29-2010, 01:31 PM
|  | Musical Anarchist | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Sutton, MA | | | Many of these fake books have incorrect changes. You need to listen to several different versions of this tune. On bar 3 I would rather play A-7 or A-7b5 and then to the D7 in bar 4. |
09-29-2010, 01:33 PM
| | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | | That would certainly make more sense, the ol' ii-V thang... |
09-29-2010, 01:45 PM
| | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | | Interesting...
D7 (nat5/nat9): D F# A C E
A-7: A C E G
By adding the 9 to the D7, you complete that A-C-E combination that is A-. Is D7 with a 9 added just a more colorful A-?
This kinda stuff is over my head...
Last edited by RocketMusic : 09-29-2010 at 03:26 PM.
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09-30-2010, 12:23 PM
| | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | Listening to the Henry Mancini original, I think the Bar 3 chords are correct as written in the Real Book (the various D7's). I couldn't make the flat 5 and flat 9 in the first chord work, but the natural 5 and natural 9 sound great in the second half of Bar 3 as a transitional/movement element. I'm sure some swinging jazz cats have sub'd the A-7 in Bar 3 at various points, but since I'm looking at this as an exercise in faithfully producing some Real Book tunes, I stuck with the D7s.
So I've added a bass line that I tried my best to make swing despite the uber-square piano programming. I used my fretted Roscoe going direct out of my Alembic F1X preamp. It was all neck pickup with the treble rolled off quite a bit and the upper mids rolled off just a hair. I also pruned some of the piano chords back and fixed a couple mistakes that are in the previous clip. "Days Of Wine & Roses" (Rhythm tracks only)
Meh, given my level of jazz experience (nil), I'm pretty pleased with the bass part. I dig the harmonic content, I dig the groove. And best of all, now I've got something slow that I can use to really start working on the melody and soloing... once I get that working well, I'll try my best to shred over Jerry's loop.  |
09-30-2010, 12:56 PM
| | | | The most 'wrong' chart in the Original Real Book seems to be 'Four'. A whole generation of players play that tune incorrectly! I think 'Sugar' is a close second. Most of the rest of the 'classics' seem correct or 'close enough'. |
09-30-2010, 06:58 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Paris of the Piedmont | | | I got my first Real Book in 1978. I live in NC and was told to call this particular music store in Buffalo, NY. I called and asked about the book. They said, "Who is this please". I explained I was told to call this number about the book and they said, "Well, if one was to mail a check for $35 to this address, then one might find a book in the mail in a couple of weeks". Gullible southern boy that I am, I did and I still have the book. |
09-30-2010, 07:15 PM
| | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | | Yeah, I picked one up on the down low in a seedy music store somewhere in DC in the early 80's. I bought it and a brass P-bass pickguard... sadly, the pickguard was put to use, but the book was tossed in a closet somewhere. I didn't have a clue what to do with it (and only now BARELY have a clue). |
10-01-2010, 06:12 AM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketMusic  Yeah, I picked one up on the down low in a seedy music store somewhere in DC in the early 80's. I bought it and a brass P-bass pickguard... sadly, the pickguard was put to use, but the book was tossed in a closet somewhere. I didn't have a clue what to do with it (and only now BARELY have a clue). | Yeah, there was one store in St. Louis back in the day that sold them 'in the back room', and you had to be 'recommended'.
Amazing how many gigs were based on playing 'Real Book' tunes back in the 80's. It was a nice tool to use when freelancers got together for a quick gig in a restaurant or whatever.
Not much call for playing those tunes any more. The days of 'cocktail jazz bands' in nice hotels and restaurants are long over, and even the 'dinner sets' for high end casual gigs are often contracted as 'no jazz', since it mostly sounds old and tired now to many people.
That being said, still a great way to learn about hearing and reading changes, and those old standards are beautiful.
I found the best way to really hear all these tunes as they 'should be played' is to invest in all the Ella Fitzgerald 'Song Book' CD's. EVERYTHING is in that series of 20 or so CD's (now available in various box sets. Amazing stuff... from Ellington to Cole Porter, to Gershwin, Rogers and Hart... amazing documentation of that whole era of 'swinging the standards'. |
10-01-2010, 08:09 AM
| | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | | ^^ Interesting take, Ken. I assumed you had a gig much like Jerry's (where he does play a lot of this stuff in various band lineups). What kind of stuff do you play on your gig that has you travelling far & wide? |
10-01-2010, 09:30 AM
| | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | So I spent a couple hours last night working on the melody for "Days Of Wine And Roses". The notes and rhythm came pretty quickly, and then I just messed around with the inflection for a long time. Man, I could play this melody for hours!!
There are several spots where Mancini repeats a note as the chords change. So a note will play over one chord, then the same note repeats over a different chord. And the second time you play the same note, the note sounds different!! It's like magic, the overall music is definitely greater than the individual parts. It's just too much fun! "Days Of Wine And Roses" (Complete Mix)
Both bass parts (the bass line and the melody) were played on my fretted Roscoe and recorded direct out of my Alembic F-1X preamp. The bass line was all neck pickup, and the melody was played with the blend centered. Here are the raw bass parts with just a touch of reverb. In the final mix above, there was some EQ and compression added. I also added a smidge of chorus on the melody in the final mix. "Days Of Wine And Roses" (Bass Line) "Days Of Wine And Roses" (Melody)
Oh, and let's see that sexy bass one more time, just 'cause we can.   |
10-01-2010, 09:47 AM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketMusic ^^ Interesting take, Ken. I assumed you had a gig much like Jerry's (where he does play a lot of this stuff in various band lineups). What kind of stuff do you play on your gig that has you travelling far & wide? | +1 Been doing what we call the 'Ritz Carlton' circuit for over 20 years now (after the decent club gigs dried up in the mid 80's)... high end weddings, corporate gigs, charity balls and fundraisers, etc. Been on the road with it for a while, but only on weekends.
That type of gig has REALLY changed in the last few years.... all the old Motown and 70's groove stuff is off the list, the 'Real Book' dinner/cocktail sets at the beginning of the night are mostly gone, and most of the large corporate functions no longer exist.
It's a fun context to play in though... usually top notch players, lots of reading (mostly charts, but some written out bass parts for special requests, etc.), no rehearsals (EVERY), and a different group every weekend (pulled from the population of freelancers in the organization, which is cool... so we all know one another very well).
I put in my notice, and have two gigs left. Getting old and tired. The idea of getting on a plane tomorrow morning (which I'm doing!) is making me tired already. Fun though... playing a big charity fundraiser in the Lake of the Ozards region outside of St. Louis... big front of house, full horn section, and I think an 'in the band' hip hop DJ (not sure of the line-up). |
10-01-2010, 09:55 AM
| | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | | So what kind of stuff is left on the list? If it's not jazz and it's not Motown, what gets played on those sorts of gigs these days? |
10-01-2010, 10:13 AM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketMusic So what kind of stuff is left on the list? If it's not jazz and it's not Motown, what gets played on those sorts of gigs these days? | Most of the 'party bands' that do these type of gigs do a combination of 'hits from roughly 20 years ago' (given the audience's typical age) and current tunes. In the past, that was some of the Motown stuff, lots of Soul (stax, etc.), and lots of 70's funk and disco. No one wants to hear that any more.
So, lots of newer dance music (Gaga, Black Eyed Peas, Mary J. Blige, Beyonce, etc., etc.... fun stuff to play, but so much production on the original recordings that it is hard to replicate live... hence the 'in the band DJ' dialing in fattening tracks etc. on some gigs). Then, and here's what I personally hate, the 80's and 90's 'white boy rock' is kind of back.... Bon Jovi, etc... lifeless, grooveless crap to me (of course, you play what is required). At least some of the Michael Jackson solo stuff is back on the play list, which can be really fun and challenging, some Prince stuff, etc.
Last edited by KJung : 10-01-2010 at 10:16 AM.
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10-01-2010, 10:28 AM
| | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | ^^ Yikes. "I flew all the way to play this?!?"  |
10-01-2010, 10:35 AM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketMusic ^^ Yikes. "I flew all the way to play this?!?" | It is all relative. I'd rather play that sort of music for 1000 people with a great band than many other types of music, but we all do what we have to do!
For my whole professional playing life (at least after the very early 'being in a band' learning period), I've been a freelance side man (i.e., I don't write tunes, just try to execute other people's tunes well on a 'per gig' basis).
If that's the type of career you choose, then you play all types of music, some you will like and others not so much. If you further demand top dollar for playing (and aren't in the top 10% of people in your craft.. which I surely am not), then it is the 'Ritz Carlton' circuit for you
I've enjoyed it for all these years. It is fun to think about what the 'next thing' will be for me. Hey, I'm getting a 5 string P Bass... maybe there is some sort of Indie gig in my future 
Sorry for all the blah blah.... kind of a strange feeling to be 'without a gig' after almost 40 years of constant playing. It feels good, and it was my own choice, but feels strange anyway!
Last edited by KJung : 10-01-2010 at 10:44 AM.
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10-01-2010, 12:11 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Hampton Roads (Norfolk), VA. | | Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketMusic one section of "Days Of". Bars 3 and 4 have these chords:
D7 (b5/b9) then D7 (nat 5/nat 9) then D7
What goes on here in terms of the 1, 3, 5, and b7? Are some notes better to omit than others? | Mmmm, don't quote changes from the book as the holy grail - they're (often) wrong. If it doesn't make sense it's probably wrong.
Straight D7 there, more likely A-7 (i.e. ii/V). You got that E natural in the melody during the head.(My bad, reading Treble clef as bass clef  - no E there. ) As the tune evolves you might start to hear (depending on the player) things like A-7b5, A diminished, Eb diminished, etc...
You basically have a II/V/I in G- (ii chord). Look at Eb7 as a sub for A7, you can see the root motion (A, D, G / ii, v, i). Or in Fmaj (iii, vi, ii).
This is one of those great learning tunes, so wide open harmonically, lots of places to explore with it.... HAVE FUN!!
-PE
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P.Earth (Keeping the groove.... Grounded)
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." - Nietzsche
Last edited by PlanetEarth : 10-01-2010 at 03:34 PM.
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10-01-2010, 12:30 PM
| | Giver of GAS
Owner, Rocket Music | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetEarth This is one of those great learning tunes, so wide open harmonically, lots of places to explore with it.... HAVE FUN!!
-PE | Have you got a short list of other tunes like this that are really good ones to learn for jazz newbies? I've really enjoyed working on this one. It's stretching my ears and my brain a bit, and -- once I dissect the melody a little bit more -- I suspect it will REALLY stretch my improv skills, too. |
10-01-2010, 12:35 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Hampton Roads (Norfolk), VA. | | Quote:
Originally Posted by KJung It was a nice tool to use when freelancers got together for a quick gig in a restaurant or whatever.
......
since it mostly sounds old and tired now to many people.
| Road callouses....???? 
Just to play devils advocate: perhaps it's the delivery, players, enthusiasm, etc. that are old and tired.
FWIW: Was up in DC 2 weeks ago for a trio hit: bass, drums, sax - 90% book stuff. Was an all ages event in the early eve. All night the young kids dancing around and having a blast, afterward a group of parents approached saying they've never seen the children so interested and excited about hearing music. "We listen to the radio at home and in the car, mostly rock stations", etc... "If we buy them some music like this what would you recommend", yada, yada yada. You get the picture. I don't even remember what the clip paid because whatever it was was not worth more than having reached even a few people in that way.
Now NOT BY ANY MEANS am I claiming to have delivered some musical revelation to this audience. But here's what I do know, myself and the people I play with have an undeniable passion for this music and I know when we get together it's infectious.
So, again just to play devil's advocate: I'd argue that given; "nice tool to use when freelancers got together for a quick gig in a restaurant".... Can't say I'm surprised....  I mean, more abstractly - if that's what it is to someone, then that's what it is, right...? And if you're the performer then that's what you make it for your audience too..??
Anyway, not trying to argue and partly thinking out loud... Maybe I'm just green...
-PE
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P.Earth (Keeping the groove.... Grounded)
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." - Nietzsche | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | 
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