Victor's Cool Metronome Exercise...

RocketMusic · #1 05-14-2010, 03:43 PM

Someone on the Bass/Nature Camp listserv just sent this link around. I haven't practiced it myself yet, but I know what I'll be working on for the next week or two

http://www.korg.com/Artist.aspx?artist=647

Gard · #2 05-14-2010, 04:00 PM

Yeah....I hate Vic....

LilRay · #3 05-14-2010, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gard

Yeah....I hate Vic....

Now you guys know how I feel when y'all roll off somethin' cool and say "This ain't my best"

Ahh Welcome to my whirl

God Bless, Ray

Darkstrike · #4 05-14-2010, 04:27 PM

Interesting stuff, I've never been comfortable with a metronome before, this may help.

Also, its odd, usually people speed up the metronome to get more advanced, he's doing the opposite, and gives a very good, sensible reason to do so.

Never really dug Victor musically though, but he's always seemed to be one of the coolest people about.

VroomVroom · #5 05-21-2010, 01:10 PM

This is so awesome - thanks for posting it, Greg! I absolutely love the four-against-five thing...just became a part of my practice routine. I often spend time doing odd-against-even (three, five, and seven against four, for example), but turning it around just opens up a whole new world. Victor is incredible.

RocketMusic · #6 05-21-2010, 01:19 PM

Have you heard his latest album "Palmystery"? The dude plays with time like that all over the place. On one tune, he actually uses two drummers and they each play different time signatures against the same song parts. Not at the same time, but you know the drummers change when you feel the drums change. Pretty wild stuff, and the magic of Victor is that he makes it all feel good/natural. It's not just for the sake of doing it.

Tricia · #7 05-21-2010, 01:27 PM

that's cool.

PlanetEarth · #8 05-21-2010, 02:40 PM

That is bad ass!! Not really polyrhythmic tho is it? I hear it more like syncopation, i.e. same quarter note meter (or time/space between 1/4 notes). Definitely an ear twister, with the phrasing being 4/4 makes that 1 accent deceptive. I dunno, what would ya'll call it?

-PE

RocketMusic · #9 05-21-2010, 03:08 PM

Yeah, it's just an advancing accent, for lack of a better term. It's 1 this measure, then 2 the next, etc. Still, probably easier said than done

I need to go try this stuff...

RocketMusic · #10 05-21-2010, 03:12 PM

Ooooo... so on the 4th time around the metronome, there's no accent at all in the fifth 4/4 measure... is that right?

1234123412341234123412341
1234512345123451234512345

PlanetEarth · #11 05-21-2010, 03:19 PM

^ The 1's meet up again if that's what ya mean - which makes sense, it's next after the 20th beat and 20 being the least common multiple of 5 and 4.

-PE

VroomVroom · #12 05-21-2010, 03:22 PM

Kind of an overused phrase, but I'd label it as metric modulation. Without talking harmony or song form, you could argue either way, for example, that he's playing five bars in 4/4, or four bars in 5/4. Drummers have the most leeway with this stuff, since they don't have to resolve anything harmonically, and can just toss a fill in at the end to come back into the form. The master, IMO...Dennis Chambers.

Here's a great vid, which features what may be a side of Vic's playing that's new to some folks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiLPJz9oYlQ

Check out the stuff Dennis the Menace is doing at the beginning of his solo. I have no idea how someone can hear time like that.

Side note (of course)... I saw these guys back in early '07 - for those who don't know, Mike Stern records and tours with some of the most amazing drummers and bassists on the planet - yet even by those lofty standards, getting to see Vic and Dennis in the same rhythm section was absolutely amazing. During one of Dennis' solos - in the song Tipitina's - Vic did exactly what I'd be doing..... He closed his eyes (hard), stomped all hell out of his left foot, and tried to keep the ostinato happening while Chambers worked his magic. He did better than I ever could, but that didn't stop Chambers...while continuing to solo with his right foot and right hand, he reached over to the left and started spanking Vic's butt with his left drumstick. Hilarious, ridiculous, and amazing, all at the same time.

PlanetEarth · #13 05-21-2010, 03:34 PM

OK, I had to go pull some books off the shelf but I guess it could (technically) constitute a polyrhythm in the simplest form of definition. But it definitely does not meet the requirements for cross-rhythm.

I guess at a certain point there becomes a fine line between syncopation and basic polyrhythms when ya think about it anyways...

-PE

VroomVroom · #14 05-21-2010, 03:41 PM

Alright, my apologies for the tangent, but I'm on a Victor Wooten YouTube binge this afternoon...

Vic & Steve Smith

Vic soloing w/ DMB - probably my alltime favorite Victor Wooten solo. Phrasing, note selection, and of course a bit of "because I can."

Fretless. Just damn. His phrasing in the middle comes full circle with that metronome exercise too.

**Bipslapper** · #15 05-22-2010, 08:15 AM

Just saw this vid again (saw it on the Korg site years ago) and it shows how solid Vic is. Reiterates Jerry's story about seeing Vic in Tucson years ago and how he really is the whole package. I have seen him many times and actually met him years ago (Lupo's in Providence w/ Bela Fleck, Howard Levy etc..) and he doesn't always play the flashy stuff (pop, tap, whammy bar) and when he wants to swing, he swanngs! He sounds great on fretless also.

Thanks Greg, Love it!
Pete

RocketMusic · #16 05-22-2010, 08:41 AM

Hey, Jerry - not to put you on the spot, but would you mind sharing something specific that you do with 3/5/7 over 4? I'm not even sure where to begin there...

RocketMusic · #17 05-22-2010, 02:31 PM

Just to go off topic slightly (what? go off topic here?!?)...

One of the many other useful things Victor preaches is giving the listener contrasts. Give 'em fast, give 'em slow. Give 'em loud, give 'em quiet. Give 'em hard, give 'em soft. I think I just found Buddy Guy giving the best personification of that concept that I've seen yet. It's 3:44 of extreme contrast. It's dynamics, it's tone, it's attack. All of those things he takes from one extreme to another...

Just Frickin' Amazing Control Of The Audience!

Listen to when the audience goes nuts. It's usually when Buddy goes from a powerful crescendo to a whisper and leaves a hole for the audience to collectively gasp.

His guitar is out of tune, it seems like he's having a bad night playing guitar... and he has them eating right out of his hands! Amazing.

VroomVroom · #18 05-24-2010, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketMusic

Hey, Jerry - not to put you on the spot, but would you mind sharing something specific that you do with 3/5/7 over 4? I'm not even sure where to begin there...

Youbetcha. Watching that vid again, it's actually pretty much the first half of Victor's last exercise. He's counting five beats against a bar of four. Doing the same thing with three beats or seven offers some really cool rhythmic tension. Playing three over four is a bit challenging, especially if you've just been playing a lot of 'Nawlins music, or anything Afro-Cuban....it's close, but not identical to the first bar of a second line or 3/2 clave vibe. Might be easier to start with three over two, and then work on dividing that again to get three over four. Five over four will likely come more naturally, and you'll recognize the pattern - in fact, it used to be one of Vic's signature kicks. Harmonically, you can just add something like a b5 or b3 (blooze scale, baby!) to a four-note pattern, and you've got a new twist to throw out there.

And, the segue - harmonically this stuff works great too. Take any three-note pattern - heck, a C arpeggio works just fine. Play C-E-G in an eighth-note pattern in 4/4, and you'll trick the listener into thinking that you're playing eighth-note triplets. Just be careful not to trick yourself too.