amp di/pedal di

colonelporridge · #1 06-29-2010, 11:24 AM

Hi,

A question regarding Direct Injection. Many bass players seem to use a DI such as a sans amp or tonehammer in the live setting, sending the signal from its xlr to the mixing board and then also possibly having the cab miked up. But people seem to also do this even if they have a great amp with a quality di out. My question is why people favour a pre-amplified but nonetheless equalized signal from a pedal such as sansamp if they have a great DI output on their amp (DB751 Direct output).

jmjbassplayer · #2 06-29-2010, 11:35 AM

Yo yo yo,

I think it's because of a historical paranoia about the 1) sound quality of DI outs on amps, as well as the 2) ground hum/noise floor issues that have typically plagued those outputs.

I agree...the DI out on a 751 is sick. So what's the biggie? Well, you just have to educate people I guess. That's what I do. Been really enjoying the DI outs of my Aguilar AG500 and DB751, as have the engineers I work with.

Best,
JMJ

bongomania · #3 06-29-2010, 11:44 AM

I agree, but in addition to that I'd say one issue is that the DI out of 99% of amps does not convey any of the tone of the power section or speaker cab, which is important for people that want the SVT+fridge sound. The BDDI attempts to model the whole SVT+fridge sound, and sends that to the PA.

For people that are not after that sound, and especially if they love the tone coming out of the DI of their amp, a BDDI or similar is pointless.

JimmyM · #4 06-29-2010, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

I agree, but in addition to that I'd say one issue is that the DI out of 99% of amps does not convey any of the tone of the power section or speaker cab, which is important for people that want the SVT+fridge sound. The BDDI attempts to model the whole SVT+fridge sound, and sends that to the PA.

attempts is right

bddi's quality stuff but the character pedals are much better at nailing the tones imho.

personally, i've been favoring a mic, but lately soundmen have been busting balls about it and telling me they like the sound from my vt and modded british pedal better, plus i can't always get a decent mic on the road (or an svt for that matter), so i'm making peace with the idea of di'ing with a character pedal.

colonelporridge · #5 06-30-2010, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

attempts is right

bddi's quality stuff but the character pedals are much better at nailing the tones imho.

personally, i've been favoring a mic, but lately soundmen have been busting balls about it and telling me they like the sound from my vt and modded british pedal better, plus i can't always get a decent mic on the road (or an svt for that matter), so i'm making peace with the idea of di'ing with a character pedal.

What is your 'modded british pedal' JimmyM?

colonelporridge · #6 06-30-2010, 05:34 AM

Bongomania said that the BDDI simulates that fridge sound and im sure that some of the other DI pedals have some elements of this kind of simulation. I am not sure if its been done, and i do not know what kind of tech would be involved but it would be amazing to see an amp with a DI out that had a speaker simulation, for example a switch which had positions such as bypass, 8X10, 1X15, 4X10, 4x10+1x15 etc... this kind of option on an amp could have great uses such as having a mic on your cab (4X10) while have the DI simulating a completely different kind of cab.

gillento · #7 06-30-2010, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colonelporridge

Bongomania said that the BDDI simulates that fridge sound and im sure that some of the other DI pedals have some elements of this kind of simulation. I am not sure if its been done, and i do not know what kind of tech would be involved but it would be amazing to see an amp with a DI out that had a speaker simulation, for example a switch which had positions such as bypass, 8X10, 1X15, 4X10, 4x10+1x15 etc... this kind of option on an amp could have great uses such as having a mic on your cab (4X10) while have the DI simulating a completely different kind of cab.

This sounds like some kind of Line6 Pod device to me...

JimmyM · #8 06-30-2010, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colonelporridge

What is your 'modded british pedal' JimmyM?

www.putnamguitars.com added an extra knob that adds extra low end frequencies to taste. marshalls don't have a lot going on below 100 hz and neither does the british pedal. but i freaking loved it on bass otherwise so mike putnam said he could mod it and it worked out great. it's on the mods page...called the (ahem!) jimmy mod. instant jack bruce!

bongomania · #9 06-30-2010, 11:22 AM

I bet the OP doesn't know what you mean by british pedal, JM.

OP: he's talking about products from Tech21, in their "Character Series" line of pedals.

MNAirHead · #10 06-30-2010, 11:28 AM

Tone shaping helps with a known bad sound guy

Onboard DIs are getting tons better.. only way to tell noise is to get a thumbs up or thumbs down from a qualified sound guy (who will change any sound to fit the room)

Most bass guys over estimate their role in a total band mix.. they'll obsess overthemselves before the overall band sound.

jgroh · #11 06-30-2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

attempts is right

bddi's quality stuff but the character pedals are much better at nailing the tones imho.

personally, i've been favoring a mic, but lately soundmen have been busting balls about it and telling me they like the sound from my vt and modded british pedal better, plus i can't always get a decent mic on the road (or an svt for that matter), so i'm making peace with the idea of di'ing with a character pedal.

Did you get Mike to install a DI into your VT and Brittish pedals or are you running them into a separate DI box? Im running into this problem myself with the sound guy busting my stones about mics and I may just have Putnam Guitars install the DI in my VT and be done with it.

JimmyM · #12 06-30-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgroh

Did you get Mike to install a DI into your VT and Brittish pedals or are you running them into a separate DI box? Im running into this problem myself with the sound guy busting my stones about mics and I may just have Putnam Guitars install the DI in my VT and be done with it.

di in the british, not in the vt. but i've got a vt deluxe on order that has a di, so if they ever make it and get it out on the market, i'll be set

attackbass · #13 06-30-2010, 06:54 PM

I don't use the DI on my Orange ad200 simply becaues it's so cool it doesn't even have one!!! Instead I run a sansamp in front of it, set to settings me and my sound guy are happy with. So many sound guys love the sansamp.

Personally I find running a sansamp bddi infront of the Orange gives me more low end and depth in the tone and an overall more solid and edgy sound.

rosstanium · #14 07-01-2010, 12:54 AM

+1 on the Aguilar DB751 having a sick DI. No need for anything else unless I'm trying to change the character of my tone...

colonelporridge · #15 07-01-2010, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gillento

This sounds like some kind of Line6 Pod device to me...

Well, a line 6 pod does have these features, but what i meant was a traditional style of amp with a speaker simulation DI out.

basslinejam · #16 07-03-2010, 08:32 PM

Another reason to use a separate DI instead of the one on your amp is if the amp cr@ps the bed, you don't drop out of the house mix.

VT Bass Deluxe: Isn't that like the Yeti of bass pedals?

(I LOVE my VT)

JimmyM · #17 07-03-2010, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basslinejam

Another reason to use a separate DI instead of the one on your amp is if the amp cr@ps the bed, you don't drop out of the house mix.

VT Bass Deluxe: Isn't that like the Yeti of bass pedals?

(I LOVE my VT)

don't know yet...apparently it's not coming out till late this month.