Ever find a use for 5 strings in the studio?

[Lorenzini]

Hey Justin,

I know you're not all about the gear talk, but I have to ask this question because I've come across a lot of differing opinions from producers on how low one should go.

I've been doing some sessions recently where I am going to low Cs, Ds and even needing to detune -1 to reach a low Bb. All of this appreciated and requested by the arranger and confirmed by the producer.

Are you asked to go low and if you can't, because you mostly own 4 string basses, how do you handle it?

I did have the thought that you might not have to worry about this mostly due to the type of sessions you do. Am I right?

Thanks!

[jmjbassplayer]

It rarely comes up. A couple of times a year at best. I first tell them that it sounds better and more natural played on a regular four-string in its natural octaves, if they don't know that already. If that doesn't work, I tune down the four string to whatever notes I need. If that doesn't work, I have a Fender Jazz 5-string that I keep at Lon Cohen's, and if they really need it, I have it delivered to the session.

Best,
JMJ

[Lorenzini]

Great. Thanks for the fast response! And that answers every question I had on it.

[thombo]

JMJ, this piggybacks on another question i've been wondering about for a while. in a past thread, you mentioned that one of the reasons you bring several basses on tour is to facilitate multiple tunings.
Is this typically say tuned in 4ths but dropped (ie; C F Bb Eb), as you suggested, a regular 4 string with dropped E strings (Drop D or something like that), or something totally different?
i'm contemplating dropping down to a four. Any insight would be appreciated!

[jmjbassplayer]

Depends. I've had just drop D's, drop C's, weird tunings based on songs. Whatever a song required. I don't really do it as an experiment normally, so I don't have any particular recommendations.

[plasson]

Originally Posted by jmjbassplayer

I first tell them that it sounds better and more natural played on a regular four-string in its natural octaves

I don't understand what people mean for "natural octaves".
said from a 4 string player: why all this adversion toward 5ers?
what did that one extra fat string did to you guys?
stole your muffins?
tried to kidnap your son?
cut your cat's tail?

all thet best

[Darkstrike]

How is any octave un-natural?

I mean, maybe with an octaver pedal, but otherwise, I don't get that....

[JimmyM]

hey, some people don't like 5-strings and low notes. get over it

[plasson]

I don't mean to be rude or attack anybody, it's just that it sounds as blunt as the "real bass players only use fingers" crusade.
I'm curious to figure if there's any actual reason or it's just a bias.

[theunknowndude]

Originally Posted by plasson

I don't mean to be rude or attack anybody, it's just that it sounds as blunt as the "real bass players only use fingers" crusade.
I'm curious to figure if there's any actual reason or it's just a bias.

my only thought on this (coming from a 5 string bass player) is that D played on the B string is a different sound to the D played on a downtuned E string?

[ricca]

Originally Posted by plasson

I don't understand what people mean for "natural octaves".
said from a 4 string player: why all this adversion toward 5ers?
what did that one extra fat string did to you guys?
stole your muffins?
tried to kidnap your son?
cut your cat's tail?

all thet best

My personal opinion:
I own several beautiful sounding vintage basses that I use live and in the studio for about everything. I never found a 5 string that has the same sound and feeling of my 66 Precision or 69 Jazz or 65 Hofner.....so I prefer detuning when it's necessary

[Remguy]

Prob'ly just jealousy. I wish I could play a five, but I've been struggling with it for years now and I'm just not as comfortable, don't sound as good. And I really want to play smooth jazz which pretty much demands a five. Oh well, guess I'll keep tryin'...

[Bruce Lindfield]

I remember reading articles about this and there is a sense in which adding an extra string is not as simple as it sounds - so in fact, you are creating a totally different instrument - as you have to stiffen and widen the neck as well as changing the pickups etc.

The extra tension on the neck creates problems that were not there when Leo Fender worked on creating an instrument that did one particular thing and was basically created on a trial and error basis with no thought to lower strings.

Adding lower strings and the greater tension changes the game, in more ways than people think?

[Kraken]

this... again? aren't you people bored yet.

look, the B string (and the lower notes on it) will ring truer due to most 5 string basses having a 35" scale instead of the standard 34" scale of most 4 string basses which have been detuned. this (I have been reliably led to believe) is due to slightly greater string tension on the 35" scale.

that said a drop D 4 string will have a slightly different tone to it than the 3rd fret on the B string of a 5 string bass.

to answer the OP I find in the Studio with all the compression and other mastering techniques that tend to happen to bass tracks it really doesn't matter, you might as well choose the method that you find most comfortable and go with that.

for some people that will be a 5er and others that will be a 4 down tuned.

each to their own.

[Remguy]

Pardon me, Governor, some of us is new to TB, 'aven't been around this particular block yet. Know what I mean, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. Think I'll just bugger off now and 'ave a pint of Watney's Red Barrel.

[plasson]

Originally Posted by theunknowndude

my only thought on this (coming from a 5 string bass player) is that D played on the B string is a different sound to the D played on a downtuned E string?

and I completely agree.
but I think there are several bass players who use 5 strings in a creative and tasteful way making lines that just wouldn't be possible with a 4.

[jmjbassplayer]

Originally Posted by theunknowndude

my only thought on this (coming from a 5 string bass player) is that D played on the B string is a different sound to the D played on a downtuned E string?

That's kinda what I'm sayin'. Natural octaves in my lingo means really "traditional" octaves. Probably a bad way of describing it.

We've been here before, but yes, it is bias and taste. Highly subjective. Just my own stuff. And lots of producers I know, frankly. They will sometimes hear a 5 string going down below E and it will fall outside their "audio comfort zone". Put it down to conservatism or whatever you want, but I hear it time and time again from a lot of guys I work with, so perception is reality here. And unfortunately it's my bias too, but I've been trying to evolve from that. It is a different, and highly valid, instrument obviously. And when I do bust out the 5, it's pretty fun!

JMJ

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by jmjbassplayer

And lots of producers I know, frankly. They will sometimes hear a 5 string going down below E and it will fall outside their "audio comfort zone". Put it down to conservatism or whatever you want, but I hear it time and time again from a lot of guys I work with, so perception is reality here.

I know what you mean - those low notes sound different and can sound great on music that is experimental or unsettling - but if you are going for a classic pop/rock sound then we have all been brought up on the sound of the 4-string bass - whether Leo's creation or Double Bass.

[theunknowndude]

Originally Posted by jmjbassplayer

That's kinda what I'm sayin'. Natural octaves in my lingo means really "traditional" octaves. Probably a bad way of describing it.

We've been here before, but yes, it is bias and taste. Highly subjective. Just my own stuff. And lots of producers I know, frankly. They will sometimes hear a 5 string going down below E and it will fall outside their "audio comfort zone". Put it down to conservatism or whatever you want, but I hear it time and time again from a lot of guys I work with, so perception is reality here. And unfortunately it's my bias too, but I've been trying to evolve from that. It is a different, and highly valid, instrument obviously. And when I do bust out the 5, it's pretty fun!

JMJ

I see where your coming from, I guess my biggest problem with playing 4's is I'm so used to resting my thumb on the B string with a 5 that playing a four I don't know where to put my thumb!

the funny part is, most of the music I play I rarely tend to play the B string but since I'm so used to my 5's with 16mm string spacing,... so I guess its like playing a 4 with a thumb rest string

[Darkstrike]

Originally Posted by jmjbassplayer

That's kinda what I'm sayin'. Natural octaves in my lingo means really "traditional" octaves. Probably a bad way of describing it.

Ahh, that makes more sense.