for a guy who enjoys amps more than the regular fellow

[casio]

Hey Justin, how've you been?
I had a question I find a bit odd, but ou helped me with my first session experience, heres my second!
anyway, I come to record this track for a pop punk band (think of blink meets the more emoish side of all time low I guess if you follow), and in any case I bring some basses and my amp over for the session. It was tracking a couple songs. when I brought my amp and attempted to put it in the studio the producer started screaming at me saying I had to get it out, what was I thinking! The problem I though was that my M-pulse has a fan that previous producers complained about (but theres a simple solution to that problem).
His explanation follows: when recording through an amp you lose the clarity (whatever), but if you record DI and amps paralel you have a 4 milisecond (I believe was the correct time) delay which just ruins the sound of the bass....
ever heard of this mysterious bass amp delay phenom? cause Ive recorded before with other producers who never mentioned anything of the sort!

[jimmy rocket]

Sounds like a problem with the engineer or recording software. Not you or your amp. I always run multiple lines, one of which is usually an amp.

[iceberg]

I'm no JMJ, but it sounds to me like this producer doesn't really know what's up. In my limited experiece, amp sounds are welcome/required for anything remotely rock. I know some gospel and hiphop cats that do the direct thing but that's about it. Seems like pop/punk is well within the scope of "amp necessary".

[undeadbass]

I always run multiple lines without a problem - whether it be amp/DI, two amps/DI, POD/DI, etc.
I find you need the clean DI mixed with an amp or model or sansamp when recording rock to get the right edge.

[Peter_00]

I think he may be referring to the phase issues that can occur when the two signals are blended.

Because the the DI signal is current, it is arriving at your tape/protools a bit faster than the mic signal, which is sound->air->mic THEN current. A slightly hamfisted explanation but about correct according to my engineer buddies.

Now whether or not this is better or worse is completely a matter of taste! If you delay the rest of mix by small increments (as in ms and .ms) you get all kinds of tone shaping options.. you might need the 'looseness' that come with the sounds being out of phase or you can tighten it up.

Personally, I rarely worry about this stuff and just try to get a tone you like and if this comes up than listen to a few options and make a decision as quickly as possible and move on.

Hope that JMJ can provide a more succinct explanation!

[knarleybass]

even if there is some delay, a good engineer can compensate for that in protools, I had a guy put three mics on my cabinet and was able to compensate for the time difference between the sound hitting each mic, but I am sure this was never a problem before digital recording, because if that is the case just about every recorded bass is recorded wrong.

[casio]

thanks for the input guys!
and I agree, since I've had producers put as much as 4 mics in different positions on my cab + DI and they never complained about it. thats why the bass sounds wasy too clean for what it should be, but hey, who am I to complain...

[megadan]

He is technically correct about the delay, but there's nothing wrong with that. You can compensate if you like, or not.

[jmjbassplayer]

Yeah, that producer needs to chill. I make records. Lots of them. With the world's best engineers, in the world's best studios. (Sorry - gotta throw down on this one).

AMP + DI = LOVE. I do it every day. If it sounds phasey or indistinct, you can compensate sooooo easily in 'Tools or any DAW, it's not even funny. Just slide the tracks around a bit in the mix or adjust delay compensation.

Think about how much latency some systems give you just by adding PLUG-INS on tracks! So no, it's basically not an issue. Any half-way decent engineer can solve this with ease.

"Producers" who say you shouldn't record an amp because of delay between mic signal and DI are just simply not savvy, or disappointingly lazy.

JMJ

[TaySte_2000]

Originally Posted by jmjbassplayer

"Producers" who say you shouldn't record an amp because of delay between mic signal and DI are just simply not savvy, or disappointingly lazy.

JMJ

This is going on a T-Shirt for the next time I go to the studio

[JohnDavisNYC]

yeah... that is complete BS... i tend to record DI most of the time, but as an engineer i record both a lot, and usually you don't even have to time align stuff... i mean... there are a bunch of great sounding records from before 1998 with both DI's and mic'd amps...

hell, if you really want to time align on tape it's not even THAT hard, if you do all that fancy stuff... just flip the reel, print the mic signal to another track with a slight delay (whatever the amount of delay from speaker-mic is, which you can find by delaying the DI until it is in phase with the mic while the tape is playing forward), and when you flip the tape back forward, you will have slid it 'forward' in time.... same way you make backwards delays or verbs on tape.

anyway, that guy was NOT an enigneer... there are too many people these days pretending to be engineers because computers can record/mix...

party time.

john

[JimmyM]

John is right. This guy isn't an engineer...he's a manual reading Full Sail graduate

I can't tell you how many times I've dealt with recent graduates of audio schools who only know from what they read in manuals and what they're taught as "the proper way." Meanwhile, the best engineers I've worked with have been guys who learn what works best by trying stuff and experimenting with gear regardless of the "rules." This guy is obviously preoccupied with his rear end cleanliness