To be a "member" vs. a session cat

pbass2 · #1 10-08-2009, 12:16 PM

Hi Justin,
I was curious if you have faced this dilemma. I have a situation where an artist is putting together a new band--a very established heavy-hitter actually--and he's asked me to play bass on the album. I can choose basically if I go in as a session guy, and get paid accordingly, or essentially join the band. We have not discussed what the terms of that would be yet in detail, but there was mention of percentages, publishing splits, etc. etc. The thing is, the writing is pretty much done for this album--my contributions I trust will be fairly acknowledged (critical bass parts, etc. etc.) but the songs are really all there, so there's really only so much I can expect to add writing-wise. So, I have to decide whether I want to invest time into tracking a whole album of material as a band member and hope it pays off in the back-end in sales, maybe some touring, etc., vs. do it as a session player and get my regular rate (and brother, I need the dough

Either way I will bring the same energy and conviction and ideas to the thing--that's just how I work.
Have you been faced with this scenario before and how did you go about deciding if so?

Thanks!

jmjbassplayer · #2 10-08-2009, 07:27 PM

I haven't been faced with that exact scenario, no. But this is delicate; there are many nuances to your situation that I am not privy to, and with that, I have trepidation giving you hard, cold advice. There is vast amounts of missing information with regards to the "joining the band" scenario, so I suggest to you that your query is premature. You can't really think with this effectively until you know way more about their offer.

Best,
Justin

pbass2 · #3 10-08-2009, 08:06 PM

Indeed, I hear ya. Was rather premature. Just curious if you had encountered anything in that ballpark.
I'm set to have a conversation with the band leader soon and get the details on the offer---we'll see what happens from there . . .

Thanks!

JimmyM · #4 10-08-2009, 10:33 PM

Hey bro, got nothing of value to add but I hope it works out for you. Looks like you have some cipherin' to do. And then once you decide how to do it, maybe you can tell us who it is

pbass2 · #5 10-08-2009, 11:14 PM

Thanks--yes, I will report back

house_of_thuan · #6 10-09-2009, 07:20 AM

Justin,

Your response to the question posted was very insightful. It confirmed to me how experienced and professional you are as a musician. As someone who's not had to face that situation (which IMHO isn't necessarily a bad dilemma to have), what kinda of "nuances" or "missing information" would be typical of someone who is facing the opportunity to join an established band? In a situation like this, I'd prefer to not have to lear the hard way.

Thank you,
Thuan

morehorn · #7 10-09-2009, 12:04 PM

hope you don't mind me throwing a little info in from my experience:

I think this is a situation that musicians a few tiers down from Justin run into all the time. i know i do.

My first instinct would be, given only the details you provided, to work out a budget and cost for your services for recording and live playing and submit that to the artist/management. UNLESS you feel like the budget is not there and they are going to move on to someone who will do the work upfront based only on promises for the future. Regardless, those first few rehearsals and sessions are KEY -- make them need you, nail the "interview" not just the audition, be the guy/girl they have to have in the project.

If there are writing sessions for the current material, and you are contributing, the proof is going to be there whether you are a "band member" or not. I've often found that that people want to throw that term around so they don't have to pay individual players who really are just there to play the parts. Then you run the risk of doing a lot for nothing if the project fizzles or they decide to re-org the band later.

Best case scenario is that the budget is there, you offer a fair price, the work gets done maybe with a couple of co-writes that have some promise and you are off to gig and be a full-sharing band member on the next production.

Worst case scenario is that you tread too lightly, do the work for free, only to have the project dissolve or get put hold etc. But, you might have some great tracks to add to your portfolio.

A lot to think about .. a lot of variables to navigate.

jmjbassplayer · #8 10-09-2009, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by house_of_thuan

Justin,

Your response to the question posted was very insightful. It confirmed to me how experienced and professional you are as a musician. As someone who's not had to face that situation (which IMHO isn't necessarily a bad dilemma to have), what kinda of "nuances" or "missing information" would be typical of someone who is facing the opportunity to join an established band? In a situation like this, I'd prefer to not have to lear the hard way.

Thank you,
Thuan

Merch share, pub splits, points, tour profit sharing, terms of original record deal (since they will now apply to you), terms of original pub deal (same thing), terms of existing management contract, length of your proposed contract, potentialities of more actual writing next time around, stuff like that.

waynobass · #9 11-04-2009, 05:44 PM

This seems obvious, but wouldn't it also depend on how much you like the artist, how well you get along personally, the chemistry?

You can be a session player with anyone because it will be short-lived, but becoming a band member will involve the next few months/years/decades. Do you like him and his music and the other band members enough to commit for such a long period?

casio · #10 11-04-2009, 06:12 PM

wayno, I think I would agree with you and I also believe it goes wothout saying, but what I could read between the lines through Justin's approach here (and correct me, someone, if I'm wrong), I believe sessions also require a certain chemistry to be able to make the best product possible.
Justin leeps saying how he enjoys working with certain people and gets called for being him, and thats as much a part of his playing as it is him being an all round good guy!
Just my 2c to keep in mind

pbass2 · #11 11-05-2009, 12:35 PM

Thanks for the input JMJ and all. Nothing really to report on this anyway--slow moving, but I have since gotten more of my ducks in a row with what I need to consider should this arise again. Funny, I've been in the biz a while, but just never really had this kind of thing presented to me this way before. It was always one or the other. Forging on . . .