The view from below...

johncg · #1 04-03-2008, 10:00 PM

Hey Justin, it is really an amazing thing to have you contributing your thoughts and experiences to the forum. As a young musician, my gratitude is boundless.

A comment you made about why bassists seem to always make good producers really hit home with me recently. I don't have the quote handy, but you mentioned in an interview that a bassist really has to be listening and reacting to everything all at once in order to offer the best support.

I've been playing in bands for a few years and was in the process of realizing that on a very deep level when I read that quote. I was hoping you would elaborate a bit on exactly how you listen in a band and how that affects what you play.

I realize that you are a seasoned pro and probably the vast majority of this listening and reacting has become reflexive and inspired rather than conscious and calculated. But if you could take a minute and really explain your thought process, I'm sure all of us would be very thrilled to hear about it!

Obviously, every musician in the band needs to be listening to everyone else in the band as much as possible. But I believe there is a unique way the bassist has to have this "bird's eye perspective" that is ours alone.

I really look forward to your response. Thanks!

jmjbassplayer · #2 04-07-2008, 10:31 PM

Hi John,

Thank you for the kind words, that's great!

As far as "how" I do it, you're right - it has become wholly reflexive...sort of like a drummer who has the independence of four limbs when they are really masterful, a very experienced bassist can feel what everyone is doing around him or her. I swear to you, that is the missing link, that kind of "telepathy". You have that, and you are contributing on a level that goes beyond even highly honed musicianship or physical skills on the bass.

This all may seem like a tangent, but this is all the pre-cursor to where we all need to be, from my perspective, and how a bassist can become that universal force:

When you play with freedom and confidence, you can sublimate your physical actions of playing the instrument to become an actual outward playing and listening experience.

That is really step one: freedom from the mechanics of what you are playing at a particular time.

If you are still "hard-wired" to a part or an arrangement in terms of being able to execute it without thought, then you have a much tougher time with the "telepathy".

Here's some other things you need to be liberated from...or rather, have them down so well that they influence you only minimally, and/or only when you want them to:

- the audience
- your gear
- the stage sound
- how your day went
- your relationships with your fellow players

A tall order...and not achievable by even the greatest bassists all the time, for sure. But in my mind, FREEING oneself from all of the above is the gateway.

Let's start there. Let me know if you have any questions.

JMJ

johncg · #3 05-01-2008, 11:07 PM

Hey Justin,

Thanks for the very thoughtful reply. The first two things you said have really given me enough to chew on for the last few weeks!

It was really cool to hear you insist so strongly on telepathy being the missing link. I feel like I'm re-discovering my favorite bassists right now just listening to how they function in the band, with that idea in mind.

The attack and decay of each note, the bassist's tone vs. the individual and collective sounds of the band, rhythmic pushing and pulling...even just "feel" really, there's a whole world of mastery that I am really just beginning to understand as my bassist's forte.

Also, as far as getting over the physical aspect of playing...well, let's just say I'm still working on that!

I find that short of playing live in a band, playing along with records is the best thing I can do. Also doing simple things like setting the metronome at 40 and playing half notes, putting it at 100 and playing eighth notes for 10 minutes straight, just really working on the fundamental stuff...but working on it very deeply. I'm hoping I'm on the right track here while a lot of my friends are playing Wooten stuff at 90 MPH!

As far as the other things you mentioned go, I find that many of those elements can set me off my axis very quickly.

Often, being in front of a crowd puts me on edge more than I'd like. Stage sound? Ha. I feel I'm playing a different instrument in every unique room. As for gear, I do have a bass/amp setup that I know very well and am comfortable getting the sounds I need quickly. How my day went/other musicians...that's really hit or miss, I'm sorry to say. I do occasionally get distracted by those little things and can have trouble getting in the zone.

I do feel however that my playing is coming together enough that there are moments where the telepathy can happen on a pretty satisfying level. Those moments are becoming more frequent and pronouced but they do get messed up by the other stuff you mentioned.

I apologize for lacking a specific question and expecting a reply, but any thoughts on bringing this all together like a Chuck Rainey/Family Man love child would be much appreciated!

Thanks again!

jmjbassplayer · #4 05-02-2008, 11:06 AM

[quote=johncg;5673251]Hey Justin,

Thanks for the very thoughtful reply. The first two things you said have really given me enough to chew on for the last few weeks!

[Good to hear!

It was really cool to hear you insist so strongly on telepathy being the missing link. I feel like I'm re-discovering my favorite bassists right now just listening to how they function in the band, with that idea in mind.

Perfect...

The attack and decay of each note, the bassist's tone vs. the individual and collective sounds of the band, rhythmic pushing and pulling...even just "feel" really, there's a whole world of mastery that I am really just beginning to understand as my bassist's forte.

I think you said it better than I could have. Those are all the missing ingredients. The untaught, elusive, and even spiritual things. They are gained by doing, not by practicing.

Also, as far as getting over the physical aspect of playing...well, let's just say I'm still working on that!

Aren't we all. So am I!

I find that short of playing live in a band, playing along with records is the best thing I can do. Also doing simple things like setting the metronome at 40 and playing half notes, putting it at 100 and playing eighth notes for 10 minutes straight, just really working on the fundamental stuff...but working on it very deeply. I'm hoping I'm on the right track here while a lot of my friends are playing Wooten stuff at 90 MPH!

I think that is great, and very noble and thoughtful of you! Basics, man. Lots of Wooten clones I've heard or seen wouldn't last 5 minutes on one of my record dates.

As far as the other things you mentioned go, I find that many of those elements can set me off my axis very quickly.

Often, being in front of a crowd puts me on edge more than I'd like. Stage sound? Ha. I feel I'm playing a different instrument in every unique room. As for gear, I do have a bass/amp setup that I know very well and am comfortable getting the sounds I need quickly. How my day went/other musicians...that's really hit or miss, I'm sorry to say. I do occasionally get distracted by those little things and can have trouble getting in the zone.

Everyone has trouble. But repetition, continuously variable circumstances, adversity, triumph, bad sound, good sound, playing after a bad day, playing with bad and good musicians, etc. These are all "mental calluses" that us musicians need to build up.

I do feel however that my playing is coming together enough that there are moments where the telepathy can happen on a pretty satisfying level. Those moments are becoming more frequent and pronouced but they do get messed up by the other stuff you mentioned.

Brilliant!!

I apologize for lacking a specific question and expecting a reply, but any thoughts on bringing this all together like a Chuck Rainey/Family Man love child would be much appreciated!

Well there you go. I can only aspire to such greatness, but thank you! I just want people to play more with other musicians. That's all it really comes down to. It's just about jamming in the garage all night, not about practicing to something you see on a DVD or Youtube. Back in the day, all we had was each other. But it made for great times and great learning. Thankfully, live music is still so alive and well, that excellence, ambition and heart are still precious commodities, and the audience can tell when people have those things, or don't.

Best,
JMJ

Juniorkimbrough · #5 05-02-2008, 11:52 AM

Justin, speaking of performance......do you find that when on tour with a certain group that after the first show or two that the band performs tighter and with more energy than those first couple of shows?

When my current band plays a 3 night run of shows it always seems like the 2nd and 3rd nights always end up being the best and we are really on our A game. I'm trying to figure out how we can get that first show on par with the 2nd and 3rd. Any suggestions?

jmjbassplayer · #6 05-02-2008, 12:00 PM

I really don't know how! THe first night contains the phenomena of everyone thinking too much, technical glitches, lack of synergy, etc. The party doesn't begin until a couple shows in. Very challenging thing to try to fix. On tours I've done, the way around this is a tiny, unannounced club show. OR: rehearsals in a big room with friends and family.

JMJ

Juniorkimbrough · #7 05-02-2008, 02:33 PM

glad to hear this is something even the pro's have a problem with...

we've talked about rehearsals the night before but have yet to try it.

JimmyM · #8 05-02-2008, 10:06 PM

Rehearsals the night before are nice but I don't think they prepare you for the first night at a new gig or on a new tour, especially if you don't have your full stage set up. That's why some bands will rent an arena before a big tour just so they can do a dry run of everything in that environment. But then the people eventually arrive and they just foul all that hard work up!

It gets easier the more you do it, though. Sometimes we'll sound better the first night just on the rush of not having done it for a few days. Doesn't happen all the time but you'll get stints like that occasionally. Just be prepared and give your all 100% of the time and everything works out.

johncg · #9 05-02-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmjbassplayer

Well there you go. I can only aspire to such greatness, but thank you! I just want people to play more with other musicians. That's all it really comes down to. It's just about jamming in the garage all night, not about practicing to something you see on a DVD or Youtube. Back in the day, all we had was each other. But it made for great times and great learning. Thankfully, live music is still so alive and well, that excellence, ambition and heart are still precious commodities, and the audience can tell when people have those things, or don't.

Best,
JMJ

Thanks for another very inspiring reply! It's great to receive the feedback from a real pro just as I'm stumbling upon these ideas. It is helping me know that I am on the right path.

On a side note, I've heard you mention in other posts that you are passionate about writing and recording your own music. Right now I'm finding it a bit tricky to balance those two roles in my own life.

I feel like two completely different people! One person obsesses over lyrics and melodies, his singing and guitar playing...the other person obsesses about all these beautiful little elements of ensemble playing. I do see them benefitting each other phenomenally well for obvious reasons.

I guess it's just a time and energy thing. How can I really be good at writing AND playing...also having a personal life and professional obligations (gigging and teaching)? It seems like the life of a professional musician is quite the balancing act.

So, honestly, how the heck do you do it?!

And could you maybe elaborate a bit on how you see the roles of songwriter and bassist complementing each other? I would really be interested to hear your thoughts on that.

Thanks again for being such a badass dude and taking the time to chat here!

jmjbassplayer · #10 05-02-2008, 10:57 PM

You are very welcome indeed!

I really don't know how I do it, because I actually don't. it's challenging and busy in my life. My writing suffers. The time I want to make for pure, unfettered musical experimentation and composition is compromised by making a living. Sometimes my awesome home studio with racks of sweet gear and piles of instruments sits for two weeks at a time unused and gathering dust while I do someone else's music for a fee. It's completely imperfect, this life. Yet very enjoyable. Hence the ambition to strive towards the ultimate goal of having time for everything, and having everything going 100% amazingly well. One could theorize that such a thing is ultimately unattainable in the infinite sense, yet is very rewarding in the pursuit!

Songwriting and bass? Bass is the link between things. It is the crossroads between the worlds of harmony and rhythm. So, simply put, writing songs with some root notes first is easy, fun, and quick! Because it's all you need, really.

A friend of mine, Peter Walker, has a band called Eulogies. I A & R his band for Dangerbird Records, in fact. For the latest record, he (being a guitar player) wanted the songs to have more elemental simplicity and power. So he wrote them all on bass. He said it was the quickest, easiest time he'd ever had writing.

Best,
JMJ