Where do I go from here?

[DRay521]

Hey Justin,

I've posted this in some other "Ask A Pro" threads, but I'd like to get as many opinions as possible. And as I did in the others, I'd like to thank you for answering my questions, as well as other members of TalkBass. The service you provide to us is very helpful. Now on to my situation.
I just graduated from the University of Alabama with a degree in Jazz Studies on Double Bass. I've also been playing electric bass for 12 years, and been in bands for the last 10. The band I'm in now has actually started to make some progress in getting bigger venues and wider exposure, but I realize that as a professional bassist, I need to expand my opportunities.
Having played nearly every style of music, from classical and jazz to rock and blues and everything in between, I feel like I'm ready to establish myself as a session or touring bassist. The problem is, Tuscaloosa, AL isn't necessarily a music hotspot. I've looked into moving to Nashville, Atlanta, or even Birmingham. I've got good respect and reputation from the people I've worked with, but I was wondering if you could give me some advice on how to break into the professional world. By all accounts, I'm already a professional, as I've made my living only by playing music for the last few years, but I'd like to take it to the next level. Any advice you have on what I need to do from this point would be greatly appreciated. Again, thanks for your help and service to myself and all members of TalkBass.

David Ray
www.myspace.com/thehypsys

[Bassmickeyd]

You can either wait to be discovered in "name that town anywhere the world" or you move to the big city and play and meet and greet and play and starve and play some more, then tour, then get fired from one band just to turn around and get hired to a better gig, just to tour more and do some recording, meet better players that introduce you to even better players then maybe the odd boat cruise to fill in some lean months. But try not to get married and have kids too early because 1) their expensive and 2) you won't see them much cause you'll still have to go out and continue to tour and play and meet and greet, and, and, and. Then after all that you may luck out and fall into a nice, challenging but easy, decent paying gig you can stand the music and the other players (because they're your real boss's) you might just luck out and survive as a working musician.
1)Realize there are more bands playing out and touring than sitting in a studio. 2) You'll make more connections in a BIG city. But big cities are more expensive to live in. And most big cities today have large college course musicians graduating every year who also want to tour and record and generally show their stuff. But unfortunately good paying in town/major cities gigs have died off and have turned into a 'play for the door' and 'pass the hat for pay'.
3) But remember if everyone else is out there doing it that's where you'll meet other musicians to make the connections you'll need to make it.
As long as you're dedicated, live well, exercise, work hard and don't expect the sun and the moon, in other words, be realistic you'll do alright.
Life's short if you want it go for it.
PS: But if you don't make it, do the world a favor be thankful for the skill and experience you've aquired and don't get bitter. The world doesn't need another bitter person regardless of what happened to him along the road in life.

[xray]

I'm a professional, just doesn't happened to be as a musician, but dude, I'd recommend you head to Nashville and give it a try. It close and there's a ton of opportunities (you just have to find them). Best of luck and Go Tide.

[jmjbassplayer]

Nashville is kind of the business, man. Sounds like you have great experience already, a great skill set, and an education. If you can be willing to work for varying amounts of small or no dough, it'll work for you, with persistence. I think it's still a very vital and busy town, and it's not far from you. As has been said: life's short. Just jump on in!

JMJ

[DRay521]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the responses.

Justin, how would you recommend I go about getting my name out there or finding musicians to play with if I go somewhere like Nashville. I know it's about networking which I'm fine with, but how do you START that process?

Oh, and yes, ROLL TIDE!!!

[jmjbassplayer]

Show up at all the cool gigs and jams that happen around town. That's job #1. Other than that, just meet everyone you can. If you're out and about, it will help immensely. Personally, I wouldn't up and move to a new city unless I had a resource or two in play beforehand. But that's just me. Perhaps I'm a bit more established, so I'd feel "naked" without something to arrive to.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by jmjbassplayer

Show up at all the cool gigs and jams that happen around town. That's job #1. Other than that, just meet everyone you can. If you're out and about, it will help immensely. Personally, I wouldn't up and move to a new city unless I had a resource or two in play beforehand. But that's just me. Perhaps I'm a bit more established, so I'd feel "naked" without something to arrive to.

ya, nobody wants to starve. but that's what usually happens unless you're very lucky. at least for a little while.

[Bassmickeyd]

[quote=DRay521;8429079]Thanks guys, I really appreciate the responses.

Justin, how would you recommend I go about getting my name out there or finding musicians to play with if I go somewhere like Nashville. I know it's about networking which I'm fine with, but how do you START that process?

I have to be honest with you, if you are still asking the question "How do I" I'm afraid you're not ready to move anywhere let alone to the BIG city. ....... You should be doing all those net-working things listed above in the small town you live in now before you move away to any city.
One question:
Do you sing?
If you answer "no" or "not very well", you better start taking singing lessons and going out to every open stage and Karoke(SP) bar in the county. Because you may get a chance at a great gig but don't get it not because the other bassist played better than you it'll be because they sang and looked more confident than you did on stage.

Think of being a 'working' professional musician as being like a caterpillar. We all start in our cocoon (we all start practicing by ourselves in our bedrooms and basements) and eventually sprout wings (some get good enough to leave the basement) and fly away like a butterfly. That's when we get a chance to hit the BIG stage in the BIG city and show everybody this is where we should be.
But be honest with you abilities and your drive to succeed.
I'd guess 99% of the players on TB have day jobs or wish they did. Many never left the basement, never traveled on the road and never paid the rent and put food on the table by playing music alone. In other words never became a professional 'working' musician. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Sometimes it's better to be a big fish in a small pond rather than a small fish in a BIG pond.
The question should not be how or what but 'when'.
When you ask the question, 'when do I?' then you are ready.

[Bassmickeyd]

Originally Posted by jmjbassplayer

Show up at all the cool gigs and jams that happen around town. That's job #1. Other than that, just meet everyone you can. If you're out and about, it will help immensely. Personally, I wouldn't up and move to a new city unless I had a resource or two in play beforehand. But that's just me. Perhaps I'm a bit more established, so I'd feel "naked" without something to arrive to.

If you're moving to a big city without connections find the best music store in town and get a job there. Music stores love to hire 'want-to-be's' to dust and sell guitars. They'll pay you just enough money to get a room, eat and show up the next day for work. But there you'll meet other like minded players who'll tell you what jams are good to go to, who's recording and where, who's touring and/or hiring and who sucks so stay away from them. ...... It'll save you a lot of time and aggravation and at least you'll eat.

[DRay521]

Originally Posted by Bassmickeyd

I have to be honest with you, if you are still asking the question "How do I" I'm afraid you're not ready to move anywhere let alone to the BIG city. ....... You should be doing all those net-working things listed above in the small town you live in now before you move away to any city.
One question:
Do you sing?
If you answer "no" or "not very well", you better start taking singing lessons and going out to every open stage and Karoke(SP) bar in the county. Because you may get a chance at a great gig but don't get it not because the other bassist played better than you it'll be because they sang and looked more confident than you did on stage.

Think of being a 'working' professional musician as being like a caterpillar. We all start in our cocoon (we all start practicing by ourselves in our bedrooms and basements) and eventually sprout wings (some get good enough to leave the basement) and fly away like a butterfly. That's when we get a chance to hit the BIG stage in the BIG city and show everybody this is where we should be.
But be honest with you abilities and your drive to succeed.
I'd guess 99% of the players on TB have day jobs or wish they did. Many never left the basement, never traveled on the road and never paid the rent and put food on the table by playing music alone. In other words never became a professional 'working' musician. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Sometimes it's better to be a big fish in a small pond rather than a small fish in a BIG pond.
The question should not be how or what but 'when'.
When you ask the question, 'when do I?' then you are ready.

I know what it takes to be a professional musician. I only ask on here because I figure it's a good way to get opinions from professionals who have had success as to what THEY think it takes. If we're not going to use these pros for anything other than, "Hey what's your favorite bass?", then what's the point of them having forums here?

And yes, I sing. I'm not Paul McCartney or Sting, but I can carry a tune and have been told I should sing more. So now I do.

Lastly, I've been "out of the basement" for 10 years, playing in bands that challenge me more and more. I've spent the last 4 paying for everything from gigs. Haven't had a day job in 7 years, and that's from surviving and doing what I have to as a musician, ie, taking the terrible gigs, playing the musicals, playing cover songs, etc. I may not love playing classical, or country, and I may prefer electric bass to upright, but I've learned everything and spent time and money to make myself a complete and marketable bassist. I've gotten as far as I can in my town, everyone knows me one way or another, and I have a good rapport with all the musicians I've worked with because I do my job well and I'm not a jerk. If I didn't feel that I had the ability and drive to succeed, I wouldn't be on TalkBass asking questions.

[Bassmickeyd]

"I do my job well and I'm not a jerk."

I never said you didn't have what it took or you were a jerk. .......
Your previous posts and question didn't show the confidence I thought the original question needed to make the leap. But, now from your last post I get the idea you do have the drive and desire. So now it's time to take the plunge and head to the BIG town and get the job done.
Good luck to you.
PS: Two points worth repeating, 1) music stores are good sources of day time connections so use them. Meet and greet everyone you can. Spend as much time making connections as you do practicing your instrument. 2) Don't turn bitter if it doesn't happen right away. Next to drugs and drink it's an artists biggest enemy.

[azureblue]

Before you do anything:

Record yourself- solos, in bands, all types of music. Get pix. Then put it up on the web. You must have a portfolio, no matter what you decide to do. As a rule of thumb, if you relocate, it takes about five years from dead cold, to working, to get established, so you must do what you can to shorten that time frame.

You must develop a musical identity. Do you have any idea how many more players just like you, are out there, thinking the same thing you are? Do even bother to guess- it will be an underestimate. And you can bet there are hundreds that are far better than you are.

But.

You need something that is YOU- that sets you off from the crowd. You need to be distinct, and have something to offer no one else does. A tip- play what you like the best - what you find the most satisfaction doing. Nobody else is you, and has your roots, so take stock of who you are, musically, and be the best at it, that you can be.

These days with the 'net, you can create a presence that is easily accessible, without having to leave town. So use it to plant seeds in other cities, if you plan to move, and be open to any city that has something to offer you. If you relocate, make sure you have your social skills honed, because half of success is being in the right place at the right time, not how good you can play. You will have to pimp yourself out, and shake a lot of hands, too, but be honest and straightforward about it. You will need to circulate more than you play- be out every night looking and asking and playing the jam sessions. The music store thing is a good idea, but it can wear you down, quick. But don't forget there are lots of other bassists doing the same thing.

My story: I got out of music school, went straight to work doing two gigs 5 days a week, back to back, for three months, with some hot jazz and funk players. Man I thought I was IT. I moved out west, and the first audition I went to, I did really good- nailed it. I was the next to last, and the band asked me to hang around- I guess they had decided I was the one they wanted in the band. Then this kid, looking like a high school runaway, comes in with a 6 string bass is a sack, and he sits down to play the parts. He played them as well as I did. Then he says, "uh, if you don't mind, me adding something- I think this could be improved if the bass did this.----. But for that to work, the guitar part should be changed to this----. And this is how they would work together--- and he played both parts at the same time! It took me a week to get over that, but it was a good lesson, in persevering, and eventually, I found my niche and got work performing, in an original band, and session work. My rule was this- work with talented and the level headed musicians, and conduct myself in a friendly professional manner at all times. And learn to listen to what people are trying to tell you. Learn how to get it out of them if you don't understand, in a stress free, creative manner. Oh yeah, and don't take crap from anybody, no mater how famous they are..

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by DRay521

And yes, I sing. I'm not Paul McCartney or Sting, but I can carry a tune and have been told I should sing more. So now I do.

if you can pull off an occasional lead vocal and have an ear for harmony, that will get you a lot of places other guys can't go. i've gotten gigs over better bassists just because of singing.

[Bassmickeyd]

Good advice Azureblue but I'm going to have to disagree on the last comment.
" Oh yeah, and don't take crap from anybody, no mater how famous they are.."

I think there is less opportunity for musicians to shine or stand out in the present 'music business' world now than there was 30/40 years ago. The music business has been run by lawyers for a long time and unless you're Sting or McCartney nobody cares what the bass player thinks. The ever present corporate 'American Idle-olgy' has leant itself to more of a stand in line and suck it up 'for your seven seconds of fame' mentality than ever before. With the few decent gigs around and more cats waiting in line for a crack at them I'd suggest once you get 'in the door' and are lucky enough to 'get the gig' you keep you're head down, you're mouth shut and don't say s*** even if your mouth is full of it.
There's a great line from the Jaco Biography that reads, "The record companies aren't going to take that crap from Madona, they sure aren't going to take it from some bass player.(No matter how good he is.)

PS: Doing a good quality DVD of your playing styles, on stage with other musicians, and sending that out to every music manager, agent, or whom ever less will accept it will help get the word out.

[DRay521]

Some really good points, azureblue, and good comments from everyone as well.

I've got CD recordings of myself in a pop/rock band, a singer/songwriter duo, singer/songwriter full band, jazz fusion/progressive rock, traditional jazz, and some cover songs. Would it be best to just include highlights from each project I've done, or just highlights of my playing in general? (I only ask because some of the older recordings from 2004-05 aren't the best)

Also, how important is it as a musician to include a resume' with a CD portfolio? I've talked to different people and gotten all kinds of responses.

Lastly, Merry Christmas!!

[HunterBrodt]

I am personally planing on going to college in the town I want to work in. I figure four years of just playing and making connections will pay off.

[Bassmickeyd]

Originally Posted by HunterBrodt

I am personally planing on going to college in the town I want to work in. I figure four years of just playing and making connections will pay off.

Remember every year these 'music schools' pump out more musicians than there are places for them to play. And the one course they all fail to teach is 'How To Make A Living At Being A Musician'. But, when you notice that all your teacher/instructors used to be working or jobing musicians it's not hard to see that they figured it out. But don't expect them to tell you that.
If you're going to spend 4-years, not to mention all that $$$, go to a university and come out with a BA in arts and music. It'll be easier to get a job teaching at a 'music school'.

[HunterBrodt]

I relize that, right now I go to a private school for music. I play six hours a day in school, like three on holidays. I relize what it takes, and its what I want so I will do it. Failure isnt an option at this point. so ya, im gonna go practice now.