Writing bass lines from demos

JimmyM · #1 03-27-2008, 08:22 AM

When you are asked to play on a song and you're given a demo of the song, does it usually include a bassline? The reason I ask is because when people give me a demo that has a bassline on it, I find it hard to move beyond it, and sometimes they have to prod me. Give me a demo with an acoustic and a vocal and I'll come up with a pretty great line on my own. But when I get a demo with a bass already on it, all I can hear in my mind is the demo, and I think, well, that line worked out pretty well on the demo so why reinvent the wheel? Sometimes it works to cop the demo. And sometimes they're screaming at me, "If I wanted what was on the demo, I wouldn't have called you!"

So my question is do you find it as difficult to move past the demo as I do when you get one with a bassline? Any helpful hints for it?

jmjbassplayer · #2 03-27-2008, 10:38 AM

Sure! Everyone has trouble moving past the demo if all they here is the extant bass line that is staring you in the face.

Sometimes I'll re-record the song myself, with maybe acoustic guitar and singing....the roughest thing I can throw down quickly. Then I can be free from those constraints - IF they want me to be.

It's tough, though. Usually when I get in the room and they mute the bass, I'll diverge from the original in a way they like.

JMJ

JimmyM · #3 03-27-2008, 02:28 PM

Sounds like a pretty good idea to re-record it yourself. Then you can at least take your head out of the demo. I will try that the next time I get a demo. That's the kind of stuff I was looking for.

I like how you added the line "IF they want me to be." That's very important.

Thanks Justin!

mkmusic · #4 01-06-2009, 01:46 AM

Hey Justin -- more questions on the writing world

do you find that most producers have patience to work-on-it-as-you-go when it comes time to record? I realize that time is money and there is a certain expectation of a player to just come in and kill it but, I guess, i'm wondering if you've run into situations where you did the homework but still show up at the session with nothing but a sliver of an idea. In a producer's mind is it the end of the world or "time to call someone else" when the player needs some help?

Do you get so many opportunities because you just do and because you don't need coaching?

jmjbassplayer · #5 01-07-2009, 12:31 AM

Yeah, most producers do have the patience for that, because 30-60 minutes spent on something is usually time very well-spent.

If the producer starts to bug out about the clock and begins to feel it is the end of the world, he or she has not earned the position of producer to begin with. They have no business being there. Part of their job is to sometimes slow things down so something cool can be created.

I get a decent number of opportunities because of that exact reason, I suppose. It's usually something quick and inspired (I tend to react on my first instinct), rather than coached or grinded over. If it's coached or grinded over, then I was probably the wrong call for that particular session.

JMJ

mkmusic · #6 01-10-2009, 12:27 AM

its good to hear. i've had the luxury of playing in bands with people who are relatively established producers. films, other artists' work was coming and the relationship was so established already, it was the same working relationship and the time and care was there.

i'm starting to get some calls from other producers, as a result, and some of the work is daunting. very busy electronic demos and they want live bass??? it takes a lot of work

how do you react to stuff like that? all the melodies are taken up, no distinctive beat to grab onto. unsure of how the straight footballs are going to play through in the producers mind?

could you shed some light on the Air sessions? did you ever run into stuff where you heard the demos enough that you said "i don't hear live bass in this" but they did?

jmjbassplayer · #7 01-13-2009, 12:28 AM

Hmm, I don't know exactly how to react to that busy kind of track without hearing something...that can get tricky, but I think most of the time in my situation, if they're calling me in there, there's usually SOME room in the track for a bassline, or at least some bass "noise".

Air - I always heard bass on the 10,000Hz Legend stuff before I got my hands on it. There were rarely demos, just tracks that were started from beats, or nothing at all.

JMJ

kyral210 · #8 01-16-2009, 02:50 PM

To throw my worth in the pot, we use Ableton Live to record stuff, and then send live packs around. If the bass line or guitar or whatever has been demoed, you can solo it, or as I like to do, turn it off! I can easily understand why this approach wouldn't work for everyone, but for us, it is heaven! Trying to write a new album right now so in the thick of it!

mkmusic · #9 01-19-2009, 01:33 PM

really great that you're taking the time, justin. i really appreciate it

mkmusic · #10 01-19-2009, 01:47 PM

oh .. by the way ... my question originally stemmed from freaking our over an upcoming session (that was busy busy electronic) .. the session happened over the weekend and the guy was totally cool .. worked the stuff out, he had some ideas and we used a lot of stuff that I came up with THERE on the spot(i.e. not what i was "rehearsing" on my own the week previous). anyway .. just throwing it out there. thanks again for taking the time, JMJ.

jmjbassplayer · #11 01-20-2009, 02:38 AM

sure thing.

KeithKlaxwell · #12 05-09-2011, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

when people give me a demo that has a bassline on it, I find it hard to move beyond it, and sometimes they have to prod me. Give me a demo with an acoustic and a vocal and I'll come up with a pretty great line on my own. But when I get a demo with a bass already on it, all I can hear in my mind is the demo, and I think, well, that line worked out pretty well on the demo so why reinvent the wheel?

Bringing back an old thread for a min.. :P

I hear this! I've had the same issue on small sessions or even joining bands. To get passed this I listen to music through laptop speakers and distance myself from the computer if I have to. This way the bass is close to completely buried. Then I can just sing my own bass line. Also, I'm always surprised how often they are willing to put together an acoustic track or already have one done.

TomB · #13 05-09-2011, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

So my question is do you find it as difficult to move past the demo as I do when you get one with a bassline? Any helpful hints for it?

Jimmy that's a great question, and there are as many answers as there are clients, I think. Sometimes I think you need to be part psychologist to figure it out when you're working from a demo.

I've had many times been told "oh, it's just a rough bass line, ignore it", only to find out when I did so that it had actually become the way the client/producer heard the line, and THEY were the ones who were stuck on it, not me, even if they didn't know it. That's where you walk the fine line of capturing mainly what's there and adding your own touches, so both parties feel like winners at the end of the session.

Something to find out right up front is whether the demo really captures the "feel" that's wanted, or was it just played through to capture the parts. A lot of that to me has to do with the drumming/rythm guitar tracks if there are any. I'll usually explore that with the client... "is this really the drum/rythm feel you wanted, or how about this..."? That can tell a lot, because if the client's not married to the feel that's on the demo, that opens up a lot of running room to ignore the existing bass line (assuming you'd like to), or even tear up the sheet and start over. On the other hand, if the feel's locked in, your options are back to #1 above.

Then there are times when I feel like you... I listen and say, why would you want me to change that? Sometimes that question can help the client think about why it is they wanted something different (you) in the first place and force them to say something... anything, that's helpful... or other times they just knocked some bass line out offhand and all they really need is for a "real bass player" to say, "Hey, that's already a cool line" and then they feel better about it...

...and I've had more than one situation like that end in: "yeah, the line's cool but I want the bass technique improved" ...and that's OK, I can deal with that vs. trying to be "different" if you've got a great line already written to a decent rythm track.

And finally, I agree with Justin or whoever implied "take the bass track away and I usually come up with something of similar vein but with my own personality"... I find that's true, and sometimes the client likes the result and you're a hero, and other times it's a way of finding out that you really do need to go back and listen to the original again to make this client happy, but at least you now know where you stand.

The truth that runs through this thread is: "the less of a bass line is already in place the more fun you're going to have." That's why I never object to writing the line w/out even discussing writing credit (I like to work by the hour, baby)...

...smoke 'em out & leave everybody happy, Jimmy. Great question!