Beginner bow characteristics

[Bass Barrister]

After "foolin around" by myself for a bit, I've wisened up and started taking regular lessons. My questions: What are your opinions regarding the best characteristics for beginner bows? I'm looking for responses in terms of flexibility, length, weight and related characteristics. This is not intended as a "which cheap bow should I buy" question, although feel free to cite examples of specific models that, in your opinion, make decent entry level bows.

This is my first major shot at learning bass. I took about three years of cello lessons in the late 1970s and also play, or attempt to play, the trombone, tuba and euphonium (hence the BASS Barrister tag). I own two bows, a geneeric "Bausch" branded German bow ($500) and a Bob G. French Style
($150).

At the outset of my first lesson, my teacher said that I was free to play whichever style I was most comfortable with. I was able to draw an sound with the German but with some effort and without consistency. My teacher than asked me to try the Bob G bow: both he and I noted immediate improvement in sound and technique, even though the hair on the Bob G. bow is in terrible shape. He then asked me to try his bow, and my bowing improved even more substantially. When I asked him what bow brand this was, he replied: "Don't know. I got it off the internet for $75 or so. It's some kind of composite something or the other." He added: "I'm not into equipment." My teacher is a fairly well known free-lancer around here with both solid classical and jazz experiences and whatever he has works for him.

My thinking is that my greater facility with the French bow has something to do with my cello playing experience - maybe the French hold came more naturally. These are my thoughts regarding the two French bows:

Bob G: somewhat rigid and heavy. Terrible hair even I've only had it for one year and have hardly played it (that of course can be fixed with a rehair). A bit longer than other bass bows I've seen.

Mystery bow: lighter, slightly shorter, and a solid but more flexible feel. It seemed to work better for me, at least then.

"Bausch" German: decent bow but I just had trouble forming the hold.

The bottom line; I think I need to look for a better French bow.

Sorry for the length of the post. I'm appreciative of any input.

[dchan]

If you buy a bow on eBay, there's a small chance that you'll be getting a pretty good find for not much money. But more often than not on eBay, you're going to waste a lot of time and some money better spend trying out various bows at a luthier's shop or the like.

That's my philosophy. eBay is a place that will reel in suckers with what looks like a good deal but turns out to be a lemon. Sure your teacher seemed to get a pretty good bow, but what are the chances that you'll be getting a good bow as well. I think that you should always try out any bow before you buy it.

And more than anyone, the beginner should get a bow that is easy to play a draws a decent tone. The bow should be well-balanced and easy to play enough that it doesn't ruin your bow-hold. Badly-balanced and hard-to-play bows will make the beginner compensate his/her bow-hold with bad habits and bad technique that will be much harder to fix later on. Professionals and teachers can get away with playing with a bad bow because they have had years of experience already of know how to play. Beginners don't.

But it never really seems to work that way. Usually the cheaper the bow, the worse it is. Conversely, some of the easiest bows to play are the most expensive. So many cheaper bows are poorly balanced and don't play all the way from frog-to-tip consistently. I blame these bows and bad basses for ingraining in beginners the idea that the bass is inherently a difficult instrument to play because their particular instrument was so hard to play.

But if you know where to look, there can be cheaper bows that are very easy to play and that draw a good sound from frog-to-tip consistently. I would suggest going to bass-luthiers to see what kind of bows they have because they will more often than now have decent bows. Plus, they have the expertise to answer any questions that you may have.

As for the characteristics.
A good bow is:
- easy to play
- well-balanced
- stiff, yet a bit flexible. Bows that are too stiff aren't good.
- draws a good sound from your bass. You wouldn't think that different bows can draw substantially different sounds from a bass. But it's true.

As for the length, it depends. Whatever the length is, it should not be too long as to compromise the balance of the bow. For a beginner bow, I would go for a shorter bow because they are usually balanced better.

And you would probably think that lighter bows will make the bow easier it play. This is true to an extent, but it depends from bow to bow.

Actually, all of the characteristics depends from bow to bow. That's why you have to try them out before you buy it. And not just yourself: get your teacher or a professional orchestral bassist to try out the bows. They have a much better concept of what makes a good bow than you do, and can discern the differences between each bow.

[greitzer]

Originally Posted by dchan

...you have to try them out before you buy it. And not just yourself: get your teacher or a professional orchestral bassist to try out the bows. They have a much better concept of what makes a good bow than you do, and can discern the differences between each bow.

+1 on that advice. If you're not able to have your teacher come with you to a bow shop, then try to find a shop in your area that will let you take two or three bows home and play them all for your teacher at your next lesson. You can get his input that way.

Some of the larger mail order houses -- Lemur Music for one --will ship you as many as three bows so you can try them all, for about a week or so. Then you can buy the one you like and send the others back (or send them all back if you don't like any of them). I did this with Lemur. they sent me three bows, and I took all of them with me to my next lesson, and my teacher helped me pick the best bow for me.

[Kaden]

my bass teacher who is a very well known bassist and has studied with some of the best bass players out there (Gary Karr edgar meyer ect..) and is currently the asst. principale bassist for the Louisville orchestra and teaches at U.K bought a bow from Ebay for 50 dollars and had it appraised for over $800 so you may want to keep an eye on the stuff on ebay but be carefull.

[dchan]

Originally Posted by Kaden

my bass teacher who is a very well known bassist and has studied with some of the best bass players out there (Gary Karr edgar meyer ect..) and is currently the asst. principale bassist for the Louisville orchestra and teaches at U.K bought a bow from Ebay for 50 dollars and had it appraised for over $800 so you may want to keep an eye on the stuff on ebay but be carefull.

For one of those stories, there are lots of people getting ripped off on "stamped" bows, cheap brazilwood bows, and other weird bows out there.

The fact is that your teacher is experienced with bows and figuring out which bows look good. Perhaps this bow was some old bow either coming from an estate that was in not so good condition. Or maybe it was a good bow made by a Chinese bowmaker. Or maybe he got lucky, because I personally would find it difficult to decide whether a bow is any good by sight alone. Who knows?

The point is that he probably knew because he is an experience bass player. For beginners, I would definitely advise them not to go the eBay route in buying bows. They don't know what a good bow looks like. They might see a shiny and pretty looking bow and assume that it is good. They certainly can't hear or play the bows, which is much more important. So for beginners, stay away from eBay.

The only somewhat sure thing I can think of on eBay in terms of bows are Ken Smith's Chinese bows when they occasionally appear. From what I know, these bow are all very good bows. However, the bows that he sells on eBay are usually the last of the batch that he has mostly sold already. This means that while these bows can be very good, the better bows have usually been picked out by customers and sellers.

My suggestion is to try out many bows. Even better, ask the seller if you can try them out for an extended period of time so you can get a better idea of each bow's flaws and virtues. And get your teacher to try them out as well. That way, the bow that you pick will be the bow that suits you best.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by dchan

For one of those stories, there are lots of people getting ripped off on "stamped" bows, cheap brazilwood bows, and other weird bows out there.

The fact is that your teacher is experienced with bows and figuring out which bows look good. Perhaps this bow was some old bow either coming from an estate that was in not so good condition. Or maybe it was a good bow made by a Chinese bowmaker. Or maybe he got lucky, because I personally would find it difficult to decide whether a bow is any good by sight alone. Who knows?

The point is that he probably knew because he is an experience bass player. For beginners, I would definitely advise them not to go the eBay route in buying bows. They don't know what a good bow looks like. They might see a shiny and pretty looking bow and assume that it is good. They certainly can't hear or play the bows, which is much more important. So for beginners, stay away from eBay.

The only somewhat sure thing I can think of on eBay in terms of bows are Ken Smith's Chinese bows when they occasionally appear. From what I know, these bow are all very good bows. However, the bows that he sells on eBay are usually the last of the batch that he has mostly sold already. This means that while these bows can be very good, the better bows have usually been picked out by customers and sellers.

My suggestion is to try out many bows. Even better, ask the seller if you can try them out for an extended period of time so you can get a better idea of each bow's flaws and virtues. And get your teacher to try them out as well. That way, the bow that you pick will be the bow that suits you best.

Well Drake, thanks for the mention but this is not necessarily true. If I have a Bow below the standard grade I am looking for, Ebay might be a way to unload it but not always the case. I get hundreds of views each week on Ebay so I see it as advertising.

Also, we have to find the time to make up each Ebay ad so I usually don't put the Bows up there on a year round basis. What I have up there now are 146g weight Bows which are not the average weight requested. Because we can't request a single weight from the shop exactly or the amount of Bows of each weight in the group, we often get more lighter or heavier Bows than usually desired by most but not all. These Bows are as good as any in the batch. It's just we have too many in proportion in the batch to the average weighted ones usually requested.

When we run low on the more desirable models and have some quantity of less demanded models, I sometimes put them up for sale on Ebay to promote and move them quicker so that I can finance a new run more cost effectively.

On the topic, I too have bought bows on Ebay and have had mixed results even with all my experience. You never know what you may find but as Drake (dchan) mentioned, for every bargain you may find, countless others are less than satisfied with the Ebay Bow purchases.

On the beginner Bow subject from a Player and Teacher standpoint, saving money on a Bow and going cheap will NOT help you learn the Bass. In fact, it is more likely it will make you develop bad Bowing habits and bad technique trying to compensate with hand, arm and wrist pressure tying to get a decent sound out of your Bass.

I always tell students to play their teachers best Bows on both your Bass and the teachers Bass so at least you yourself can tell the difference. It's like trying to parallel park a Cadillac without power steering. Or, having the Dentist work on your teeth without any local anesthesia applied first.. ouch!