Which bow and why?

jbenner913 · #1 05-03-2007, 05:23 PM

I am curious as to why people choose to play either the French bow or the German bow. I'm not trying to open up another "Which bow is best?" discussion, I'm just trying to gain knowledge. So why do you play with the bow you use?
Thanks,
Jon

Eli_Upright12 · #2 05-03-2007, 05:53 PM

I played both, starting on German, because that was what was available at the elementary school, then switched to french at my private teachers request, but it really made a difference for me. For me I wasn't get the control with the German Bow, which is probalby because I had never really been taught it, the grip was shown to me once and thats all I had to go by, but generally I just feel that I have a little bit more control and abilitly to drag out notes with a French bow, though Ive seen great players on both bows. In the end I think you just commit to one and give it your all and that will be the one thats better for you, and usually you start on the one that feels most natural to you.

jallenbass · #3 05-03-2007, 05:57 PM

I play French now. For me it's all about playing on the E string. I could never get comfortable with German bow on the E string. I have to adjust more when I play on the G string with the French bow but I can live with that. Past that I don't find any difference with sound or playability. I always sound like me no matter how I hold the bow.

damonsmith · #4 05-03-2007, 07:27 PM

You are best off learning both grips. For Jazz or adults wanting to use the bow for intonation a German is easier to start with.
John is right about the E with German - I either lean slightly or use the French grip.
French grip takes longer to learn and you can't really get much done until you have the grip down.
You can hamfist the German and let the grip develop along iwth everything else.
Kids and anyone with classical aspirations should have a working knowledge of the French grip.

Cory Palmer · #5 05-03-2007, 08:29 PM

I started on french bow in middle school because that is what the teachers knew how to teach. I went to middle and high schools around Atlanta, GA where hardly anybody plays german bow.

By the time I got to college I had developed a lot of bad habits with my french bow grip. In one of my first lessons at Michigan State, Mr. Budrow had me try a bunch of different grips then handed me a german bow. He showed me exactly how to hold it and it felt much more natural to me than french bow.

I recently got a french bow again and am working on my french bow playing again. I am definitely keeping german as my main bow but I want to be able to get by pretty well with a french bow.

I have found that being able to do a stroke on one of the bows can help me understand how to do it on the other.

dchan · #6 05-03-2007, 09:07 PM

French bow is definitely harder to use. I use it because that's what my first teacher used and taught. It has been 8 years since I first began playing the bass, and only this year have I finally gotten a truly comfortable grip.

I also have found that it has been easier to get a more controlled and sweet sound using French bow. Of course, I've only used Germans on whim without playing very seriously.

That said, I feel that neither have any distinct advantage over the other. Bassists and bowmakers have come far enough that what advantages each had before have been minimized. All bassists should definitely learn to use both.

CPike · #7 05-03-2007, 10:22 PM

Six of one, half dozen of the other... I started on French in 6th grade and continued through high school. In my senior year we "discovered" this strange thing in the director's office called a "German bow". We thought it was dropped there by aliens from another planet. After graduation, I bought my first bass - an "outfit" with bow and bag. The shop keeper (Phil Weinkrantz, anyone remember him?) told me I could choose French or German. I thought about it for two seconds and said, "German!", thinking why the hell not. As luck would have it, when I went to college the following year the bass prof was a German player, so my path was set for the next 22 yrs.

Some things are somewhat easier to play with French and harder with German, and vice versa. Neither one is intrinsically more difficult overall than the other. I have always had a French bow - I take it to jazz gigs, and just to have it. One thing I've noticed, most German players own a French bow, but I know very few French players that own a German bow. Whatever meaning you take from that, who knows...

At an orch gig recently, some hot-shot kid was yapping about some fast lick we had to play and he turned to me and said, "Can you play FAST with a German bow?" I quickly fired back, "Yeah, can you play LOUD with a French bow?" He didn't realize I was razzing him, ha ha.

In these parts, my buds and I are fond of calling the German bow "Butler style".

Chris

jbenner913 · #8 05-04-2007, 01:59 PM

Thanks for you guys that have replied so quickly. The reason I posted this question is because the teachers I am starting to work with play on a French bow. I play on a German bow now, and am considering making a switch. I played French bow for about a year and a half when I started, since I was a crossover from the violin. Do you believe there will be any major issues with a switch like this?
Thanks again,
Jon

Eli_Upright12 · #9 05-04-2007, 03:04 PM

only temporarily, it took me about, maybe 2 months to full adjust to French coming from only a german background. for you, being a former violinist it might come faster, you will be momentarily set back, then you will make large strides as you work with your teacher. But in the end it comes down to what you feel more comfortable with, but since your working with a teacher I would recommend the switch.

Bassism · #10 05-04-2007, 03:11 PM

I play French both because I was first a cellist, and my first teacher also plays French. I find German to be awkward to play.
As long as the grip feels comfortable to you, I'm sure it would be okay as long as you give it time and effort.
And I think there is a benefit in using the same grip as your teacher, sicne they will be better able to critique you.

jfv · #11 05-04-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPike

...
One thing I've noticed, most German players own a French bow, but I know very few French players that own a German bow. Whatever meaning you take from that, who knows...
Chris

LOL, so how many german players and french players do
you know, I would hazzard a guess that its dubious to base
statistical generalizations on the numbers

I play french and I own a german, it may be cheap and it
gets very little use, but still.. My teacher is a student of
Rabbath, yet she owns both, and actually plays german
quite often in symphony. Many other french players on
this site have confessed to owning both.

So... another failed attempt to find a reason german
players are more 'open minded' and therefore
superior...

damonsmith · #12 05-04-2007, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dchan

French bow is definitely harder to use. I use it because that's what my first teacher used and taught. It has been 8 years since I first began playing the bass, and only this year have I finally gotten a truly comfortable grip.

I 'd say harder to learn - getting good control of the German takes just as long it just donsn't hurt as much. I can use them equally well at this point. I favor the German grip for most things for whatever reason.

LuisaM · #13 05-05-2007, 07:21 AM

These remarks are very strange to me.
I live in Portugal and I think that there are more people playing german (or russian, which is a variation) than french. But the only players I know that own the two, are the ones that switched. And, normally, they switch in the first 5 years or so. I know several cases of studants playing with a different bow than their teacher!
Personally, I play german and would't change, even if I was with a teacher that played french.
My current teacher studied with Streicher and I love everything about his technique. Even the foot holding the instrument! It felt natural very quickly and I don't notice any limitations, except one: changing from arco to pizzicato. It seems a lot easier with a french bow.
Honestly , I don't see the need of learning both. I'd be concerned to start mixing techniques and getting confused. Maybe it's silly...

zeppelinfreak · #14 06-09-2007, 08:16 PM

Im still new to the DB, but this reminds me of an arguement I often see between bass-guitarists. Pick or finger style.

I think my logic in that dispute applies here too.

You should be able to comfortably do both and apply to the song the one that its best suiting.

Kjetil Laukholm · #15 06-10-2007, 11:49 PM

The only thing to consider is what grip the teacher is most comfortable teaching.

On a high level there is very little difference between french and german.
I would argue that a player with short arms would benefit from french as it gains you an inch of reach towards the bridge and lets you keep your head closer to the neck.

In our section we have only one french bow out of the eight.