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Bows and Rosin [DB] Bass bows and rosin issues, makers, brands, choices, recommendations...


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  #1  
Old 09-08-2009, 04:56 PM
gscroggin's Avatar
He's like the guy in the Hefty bag commerical...
 
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Location: CT
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Breaking hair applying rosin; "newer" bow

Every time I rosin my bow, I seem to break hairs. Sometimes at the middle, sometimes at either end. The hair sometimes breaks while playing, but that's probably to be expected, given my amateur technique at this point in time. I do cut (as opposed to yank) the stray hairs, but the thing is starting to look kind of ghetto in my non-expert opinion. A bit of back story:

Having not done much arco since high school and college (and even then, I was basically self taught with help from a cello player), I recently decided to give it a whirl again. I only had experience with a German (all that was available at school), so a few months ago, a friend of mine gave me one that he had, which he has only barely used. He said he paid around $100 for it, it was something of a spare for students at the time he purchased it, but now he's got quite a few, all much nicer and much more expensive. I believe it's brazilwood, with an ebony frog and clear/white real horse hair.

I bought some Carlsson rosin. I previously recalled having used much "softer" rosin back in high school, but in all honesty maybe I'm recalling something else. Anyway, I tightened up the bow and went to town.

The first time, I immediately broke a few hairs. I took a look at the Carlsson, and notice the edges on the top of the cake seemed rather sharp (it's concave with the edges higher than the center). I took some 1000 grit wet sand paper and flattened them out. Washed the off the cake, let it dry and came back to it the next day.

From this point on, it's pretty much been the same routine, no matter how I attack it;
- try a small section, 3-4" at a time
- try end to end
- just start in the middle

I do actually end up with rosin on the bow, and it's making it to the strings as well. It doesn't last all that long, but I do recall you need to load up the bow over time. I tried some friends violin rosin, don't know the make, but the results were the same. I don't think I'm over or under tightening the bow, and I don't think I'm applying an abundance of pressure...

So my question (which I'd ask my friend, but he's out of the country for a while); does it just have bad hair? Like I said, it was basically new according to my friend, though it had been sitting around for years. I trust his opinion, he's a great player and is professionally/formally trained, unlike myself. Is it possible the hair is just dry and brittle?

I've been thinking of taking a trip to Upton (I'm in CT), but I don't want to show up with a half ass bow and have them look at me sideways like an idiot, e.g. perhaps it's not worth re-hairing, etc. Is that even possible...are $100 bows not worth the trouble? Likewise, once my friend returns, I don't want to end up at his place with this mangy looking bow and a dumb look on my face...

Thanks!
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Last edited by gscroggin : 09-08-2009 at 05:00 PM. Reason: spelling
  #2  
Old 09-10-2009, 08:23 AM
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The first 10 minutes of my very first lesson on double bass 48 years ago was how to put rosin on the bow. I hardly see anyone doing what I was taught. I teach it to my students.

Use only downbow to apply the rosin.

Move the bow, not the rosin like you see violinist do.

Draw the bow across the top edge of the rosin at a 45 degree angle from the edge toward the center of the cake the full length of the bow. This keeps rosin from chipping off the edge.

Use really light pressure and draw the bow across the edge several times. The first few times won't apply any rosin but will heat the rosin from friction. You will then see the edge of the cake being worn down and the rosin going on the bow.

In 48 years I have never broken a bow hair while applying rosin.
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Pöllmann 5 String Bussetto 1999
Kay C-1 #24190 1950
Sue Lipkins German Bow 2011
Prochownik German Bow 1999
Flexocor Strings
Pops Rosin
  #3  
Old 09-10-2009, 09:25 AM
gscroggin's Avatar
He's like the guy in the Hefty bag commerical...
 
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Thanks Bill! I've definitely been moving both the bow and rosin at any given time, and with both strokes. I'll give the downbow 45 a shot.
  #4  
Old 09-10-2009, 08:08 PM
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I think the important points there are: move rosin OR bow not both (so you can brace one hand), use minimal pressure and let the friction heat the rosin, and make sure the pressure is on the leading edge of the rosin cake so it doesn't flake the edge off. I've never been able to observe going one way only making a difference so long as the pressure is on the leading edge... but then, I do it downbow by habit (it is easier that way). I wouldn't say I've never broken a hair, but it is very infrequent... I can make a rehair last 5 years or more.
  #5  
Old 09-10-2009, 09:47 PM
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The hair could be old and in need of a rehair. It's about $60. It should be done about once per year.
  #6  
Old 09-12-2009, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew McGregor View Post
...I can make a rehair last 5 years or more.
funny, i've been telling everyone i play with that i need a rehair for like two years now... truth is, i'm no longer convinced that i need one at all, i've just always heard 6 months to a year (which i would be way overdue for). if you get a good re-hair the hairs shouldn't break easily. i really do think they can last a lot longer than a year.
  #7  
Old 09-12-2009, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Square Bear View Post
funny, i've been telling everyone i play with that i need a rehair for like two years now... truth is, i'm no longer convinced that i need one at all, i've just always heard 6 months to a year (which i would be way overdue for). if you get a good re-hair the hairs shouldn't break easily. i really do think they can last a lot longer than a year.
True, a good rehair job makes a big difference for the issue hair breakage - but more significant in the hair's age is how it loses elasticity and the ability to hold rosin.
  #8  
Old 09-12-2009, 10:11 AM
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You know, one reason for breaking a lot of hairs can be that the wedges weren't done right in the first place. So if you can't seem to find a technique that will avoid hair breaking, get the bow rehaired anyway... you might just have had bad luck with the way the last lot was put in.

Hair can last a long time, but it does wear out as well as getting thin from breakages. So if your bow isn't gripping as well as it used to, or as well as someone else's, then you might be in for some hair for that reason. It does depend on how much you play too... I bet if you were playing 8 hours a day it would last a lot less. But I see no need to do that, there's only so much a body can take.
  #9  
Old 09-15-2009, 08:37 AM
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Location: hartford, ct
also worth mentioning, if this is the original hair that was on your bow, it's not likely very good hair, especially if it was only a $100 bow to begin with. if a rehair is over half the value of the bow to begin with, seems safe to assume that they wouldn't put very good hair on the bow when it was new if they're trying to turn a profit.

Last edited by Square Bear : 09-15-2009 at 08:38 AM. Reason: use of a fragment as a sentence
  #10  
Old 09-17-2009, 05:54 AM
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I only seem to breaking hair when practising spiccato.
Is that normal? or just bad technique?
  #11  
Old 09-17-2009, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Fret View Post
I only seem to breaking hair when practising spiccato.
Is that normal? or just bad technique?
Unless you are the Incredible Hulk, that shouldn't happen. Is it breaking or pulling out at the end? Could be you need a rehair. Maybe the hair is old and brittle?

Let me once more put in a plug for Sue Lipkins who does the best rehair in the world.
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Bill Bentgen
http://www.billbentgen.com
Pöllmann 5 String Bussetto 1999
Kay C-1 #24190 1950
Sue Lipkins German Bow 2011
Prochownik German Bow 1999
Flexocor Strings
Pops Rosin
  #12  
Old 09-18-2009, 03:57 AM
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Last time I looked in the mirror I wasn't green and still had my my pants on

It only happens once in a while and when it happens only one hair breaks. But I think spiccato is worse for your bowhair then 'normal' playing.
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