Chinese Snakewood?

[robobass]

A colleague just bought a German model (Ebay#130071787824, I think) It was too long for me, although I don't really play German, but My German colleages all said it was not to long, but definately to heavy. I didn't find it generally playable, but I found it to have a wonderful stiffness which resulted in a huge and bright sound. I am interested in getting a french model. this company also sells a french bow (Ebay#130071805840), but it is 161g and 725mm. A bit long and heavy for my taste. There is another one (Ebay#(220071078097) 155g/70cm that sounds a little better for me.

Has anyone tried these bows? what are the general differences between snakewood and pernambuco? What is snakewood anyway, and where does it come from?

I love a very stiff bow. My favorite bow is a pernambuco by Chris English. It is 146g and only 676mm. I would love to have a bow with this weight/length in this same snakewood I just tried.

There are also CF bows from China that look impressive. I don't see any discussion about this here. These bows seem worth checking out!

Robobass

[Silversorcerer]

If it is really snakewood, and like many woods, that is not necessarily the tree, check this site for what is currently sold as snakewood:http://www.exoticwoodgroup.com/order_snakewood.htm

Snakewood was more popular for bows before Pernambucco was discovered. These were quite the rage a couple hundred years ago. Some makers still offer it as a choice. It's not a new thing though. Here'a a maker who did some real good research and has some good examples and sources of snakewood and other woods that are not in such frequent use currently:http://www.historicalbows.com/index.html

[robobass]

Thanks for the links. I knew that snakewood was typical for baroque bows. Can anyone comment on how it compares to pernambuco for elasticity, density, etc.? After seeing the pictures on the links, and seeing the actual bow, I am pretty convinced that it is real snakewood. After playing this bow, I find it no surprise that this wood was popular. What makes pernambuco more desirable today?
Robobass

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by robobass

Thanks for the links. I knew that snakewood was typical for baroque bows. Can anyone comment on how it compares to pernambuco for elasticity, density, etc.? After seeing the pictures on the links, and seeing the actual bow, I am pretty convinced that it is real snakewood. After playing this bow, I find it no surprise that this wood was popular. What makes pernambuco more desirable today?
Robobass

Who knows? Sometimes I think people just get stuck following the crowd. Like Red Delicious apples for instance. They have all the flavor of a potato. Give me a Pink Lady, Gala, Macintosh, any day and leave those strontium apples alone! I'm getting a bow made from some kind of native hardwood by an adventurous bow maker. I gave him a lot of leeway to choose the stick himself;- as long as it is from an American (local) and not endangered species. I suppose there are things other than spruce to make bass tops from also. Makers should not just keep recapitulating history.

[Snakewood]

Originally Posted by robobass

Thanks for the links. I knew that snakewood was typical for baroque bows. Can anyone comment on how it compares to pernambuco for elasticity, density, etc.? After seeing the pictures on the links, and seeing the actual bow, I am pretty convinced that it is real snakewood. After playing this bow, I find it no surprise that this wood was popular. What makes pernambuco more desirable today?
Robobass

I own a Snakewood French bow 143 g. I love it. Snakewood requires that you play with a much more loose hair. I find that the sound of Snakewood cuts through much easier than pernambuco. You get a lot more clarity in sound.

[robobass]

I ordered snakewood violin and viola bows for my wife from Yitamusic (ebay), I couldn't resist the price! Their french bass bows were totally out of bounds for me as far as length and weight, so I put off buying a bass bow, although I would very much like to have one. I actually sent the dimensions/weights of my favorite bows to some of the Chinese sellers to see how they would respond (Maybe not very friendly to American bowmakers, but I hate to see rare wood wasted!). I may order a custom bow from one of them. Where did you get your snakewood bow?
Robobass

[robobass]

Update: I went ahead and ordered a custom bow based on my Chris English french model. They said it will come out a bit heavier than if it were pernambuco, but since it's rather short, I'm hoping it will work. They asked for student bow money. I'll report when I get it. My wife found the violin and viola bows beautiful, but heavy and hard to control. They did make good sound, however. She is a hobby player. Maybe she will warm up to them. I think the idea here is that for snakewood to work, the bow must be shorter than the typical Torte model to be controllable. Opinions?
Robobass

[littlekatie]

My teacher bought one of these (french style). He loves it, although the first one he received, the stick of the bow tended towards the wrong direction under a lot of pressure so he returned it and got a replacement which is fine, and he absolutely loves it. The snakewood looks great too, and now my friend who is also one of his pupils is looking at getting one for herself.

[jfv]

I have a snakewood frog, but not the stick.
If you get some boat-anchor of a stick it will
have consequences on your technique.

Rabbath advises to not exceed 135g for a bow,
I suppose 140 wouldnt be too bad, but 150 or
160??

Volume does not come from the weight of the
stick, it comes from your weight, the bow just
is the tool to transmit that to the strings. When
all you want to do is play slow forte maybe it
will seem good, but start playing piano 16th notes
and that stick is going to make you work harder.

[robobass]

Point taken, but I don't think life is quite so simple. My Chris English weighs 145 grams, but is rather short at 67.6cm. I find it more precise than my Stephen Reilly (also a great bow) which is only 134g but 69.5cm. The Reilly doesn't feel any lighter when you play it. And I disagree about weight not coming from the stick. My English works well on my own 4-stringers, but when I try it on the Orchestra's 5-string Poellmann, I have to press really hard, and my shoulder gets sore. Two other of my bows allow me get good sound with less effort. One is the Reilly, and the other is longer than the Reilly and heavier than the English.
Go figure.
Based on the dimensions I sent, I'm expecting the snakewood bow to be 150-155 grams. I'll report wnen I get it.
Robobass

[Basschair]

I envy you your purchase. One of these days, I'll be making a snakewood bow for myself, and it'll probably take forever to get it just right.

At any rate, IMO there's been a lot of oversimplification of the situation here...there's so much more to a bow's behavior than just the weight. The density of the wood, the stiffness of the stick, the weight of the bow as a whole and the weight's distribution (ultimately affecting the balance point), the type and freshness of the hair, etc., etc.

I love the way Rabbath plays, and have seen/heard his recommendations on the weight of the bow, but feel that ultimately that weight is appropriate for his style of playing. He has that whispy sound, and very light, low-tension strings, with very low action. So, he's not wrong: I just don't think he's necessarily right for ALL bassists, styles, and situations.

If you've found that bows in that weight range work for you, then it may well end up being a great purchase. If you're not happy initially, go back to the bowmaker and have it adjusted. If the bowmaker won't do it, find one who will. You'd be surprised at what can be done to change a bow's feel and behavior under the player's hand.

Best of luck!

Originally Posted by robobass

Point taken, but I don't think life is quite so simple. My Chris English weighs 145 grams, but is rather short at 67.6cm. I find it more precise than my Stephen Reilly (also a great bow) which is only 134g but 69.5cm. The Reilly doesn't feel any lighter when you play it. And I disagree about weight not coming from the stick. My English works well on my own 4-stringers, but when I try it on the Orchestra's 5-string Poellmann, I have to press really hard, and my shoulder gets sore. Two other of my bows allow me get good sound with less effort. One is the Reilly, and the other is longer than the Reilly and heavier than the English.
Go figure.
Based on the dimensions I sent, I'm expecting the snakewood bow to be 150-155 grams. I'll report wnen I get it.
Robobass

[Machina]

I use a E. Wilfer Snakewood German model at 156 grams. I am extremely pleased with the projection, balance, and control the bow gives compared to cheaper Pernambuco bows my fellow bassist use. The bow weight is a bit heavy compared to others, but I have not experienced any problems with it. I would recommend it to anyone who can afford one.

[Snakewood]

Originally Posted by jfv

I have a snakewood frog, but not the stick.
If you get some boat-anchor of a stick it will
have consequences on your technique.

Rabbath advises to not exceed 135g for a bow,
I suppose 140 wouldnt be too bad, but 150 or
160??

Volume does not come from the weight of the
stick, it comes from your weight, the bow just
is the tool to transmit that to the strings. When
all you want to do is play slow forte maybe it
will seem good, but start playing piano 16th notes
and that stick is going to make you work harder.

a good bow has nothing to do with weight, it has to do with balance.

my b. walke 145g Snakewood french bow is easier to play than my previous reid hudson 131 g bow.

[TMWBassist]

Hey Guys,

I wanted to know if anyone uses a snakewood German bow? If so, how do you like it and does the higher weight make much of an difference? Robobass, did you order your custom bow from Yitamusic? If so, was it an easy process? Also, your friend that ordered the Chinese snakewood... how does he like it? I am thinking of ording one from the same place.

TMWBassist

[TMWBassist]

Originally Posted by bassist14

two days ago i bought a bow from yitamusic via ebay.

processing is very easy and transparent so far.

Thanks for your purchase and quick payment.

Bassist14, Thanks for the heads up! I will look out for that. Hopefully the additional cost is low. Let me know how you like your bow when you get it. What bow did you order?

[bassist14]

hi TMWBassist
i orderd one of these:
http://cgi.ebay.de/A-Fine-Carbon-Dou...QQcmdZViewItem
they sell most of their products via "buy it now", but sometimes they start from 1,-. i got mine for about 70€, and think it´s ok for a bow i´ve never seen or played before.
i hope i will get it next week.

[robobass]

Originally Posted by TMWBassist

Hey Guys,

I wanted to know if anyone uses a snakewood German bow? If so, how do you like it and does the higher weight make much of an difference? Robobass, did you order your custom bow from Yitamusic? If so, was it an easy process? Also, your friend that ordered the Chinese snakewood... how does he like it? I am thinking of ording one from the same place.

TMWBassist

Well, he didn't like it. It was quite heavy, and therefore hard to control. It did draw a huge and bright sound though. He paid about EUR350, and sold it directly to a student. I thought it might have worked if it had been shorter. I have the same opinion of the violin and viola bows I bought from the aforementioned firm. I still haven't gotten my custom French bass bow, but I get a good feeling from these guys. They answer emails quickly, and in good English. I think they just don't have skilled players around them to test their models. If you send your own spec's, you might do well. I'll of course report my experience. This situation reminds me of what was going on when I was in music school in the '80s. There were lots of German firms making French bows. They were well made, and decently balanced, but the heads were always too small. The makers just couldn't get it into their own heads how big a French head needs to be for the bow to play properly. Cultural mindsets can be hard if not impossible to break.
Robobass

[TMWBassist]

Well,
I decided to get one and I got a great price for it! I ordered the snakewood german bow #130085487761. Hopefully it works out well and I will also look into a custom one to my specs in the near future. I'll let you know how it is when i get it!

TMWBassist

[TMWBassist]

I received my snakewood bow. It took ony 5-6 day and I also ordered a hard case from them. The bow is great and the tone quality is more than I expected. As for the weight, I am fine with it (149g). I would reconmmend these guys (yitamusic from ebay) if you are looking for a great price and good quality. This bow is worth way more than I paid.

[stiv1]

I too just received one of these french snakewood bows and would agree with what TMWBassist said above. My curiosity was piqued by the conversation being had here and was a cheap way to try a snakewood stick. Pretty amazing for 250 bucks!