French bow holds

[mheintz]

I've been exploring a number of different holds for the French bow and I'd like to hear (or see) how you prefer to hold the bow. In addition to finger position, I've encountered a few different concepts. I'm sure there are more.

Angled: Rabbath angles his forearm quite a bit to facilitate wrist motion. I believe that his index finger holds the bow closer to the second knuckle. Thumb underneath the stick close to the frog. Second finger near the ferrule and third finger near the eye. Pinky on the stick.

Flat: In contrast, I noticed that Bradetich's hand is quite flat. Bradtich's pinky is also almost completely off the bow and much lower than Rabbath's. I noticed that other players with similarly flat positions have the pinky riding near the back of the frog.

Cello: Finally, some more traditional texts (Portnoi) recommend a more cello-like hold with the second finger more engaged on the stick.

Right now, I am experimenting with:
Index: close to first knuckle
Second finger: near ferrule
Third finger: near whole in frog
Pinky: close to first knuckle on stick, closer to eye
Thumb: under stick, close to frog (as opposed to in the frog)
Hand angled (although not as much as Rabbath)

What have you used and why?

[JoeyNaeger]

I tend to use the flat approach, but I'm really trying to get better with the Rabbath grip. I can do it fine until I play something challenging and then I end up switching back to the flatter grip. They both have their merits, but I find that solo work and complicated spiccato strokes work really well with the Rabbath grip. The flat grip works really well for heavy playing down at the frog for me.

[Mr. Jiggy Fly]

I have always found certain bow holds to be quite uncomfortable. For instance, my thumb is fully touching the frog, yet I have seen many players who have their thumb completely on the stick, barely touching the frog. Too me, this is uncomfortable. My pinky doesn't touch the frog; it is located slightly behind it. The middle and ring fingers have almost no weight at all on them, but remain curved and touching the frog. My wrist is bent slightly, but not to the same extent as Rabbath.
Interesting how many different ways there are to hold the French bow. I wonder if German players have these same choices

[Istar]

http://www.robertoppelt.com/page8.html

Does this answer your question ?

[Gary Holder]

I grip a French pattern bow with my thumb gripping the flat under side of the frog & I also use a German bow type grip on it too.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

I prefer the Italian grip, Thumb in Frog as opposed to Thumb on Stick, French/Cello style.



The Bow shown has an unusually wide Frog and not at all what I use. It's just the only Bow I have pictures with.

[mheintz]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

I prefer the Italian grip, Thumb in Frog as opposed to Thumb on Stick, French/Cello style.

Nice pictures. I practice with the Italian grip from time to time. I find that I can get some nice heavy strokes with it. However, I prefer the balance and the feeling of the stick and leather grip with the French style.

[toman]

I play German most of the time, and French on occasion, just to stay in the habit. I stick (so to speak) with the cello style I was originally taught. (Thumb on the stick, between the grip and frog, and pinky on top) That said, I learned cello before bass, and with German, I use the Streicher technique even though I've studied with several teachers who despise it. :-P With German bow, I just can't get into the "lead arm" thing so many guys go for. I need some articulation.

[charlespf]

I like to stick my thumb in the frog like Ken, but I keep my thumb joint more pointing towards the tip, so my thumb is kinda curled in. I used to hold it more like a cello bow, but it would give me a tendency to tense my thumb up and start squeezing.

[Felessan]

Originally Posted by Istar

http://www.robertoppelt.com/page8.html

Does this answer your question ?

Anyone got a website like that for french grips? I've been experimenting with various holds for particular styles/articulations.... there are a LOT of options not even discussed yet....

-Trevor

[ekspain]

I suspect it has alot to do with the balance of the bow in question.
I've studied with Rabbath, and L.Hurst, J. Orleans- so I've seen alot of variance with regard to ideas on how to hold the bow. Francois, keeps his thumb between the frog and the stick. I work in Europe, and alot of the guys here hold the bow in the frog. I was stubbornly holding to my Rabbath ideas as to thum placement, when i finally reallized it doesn't suit me. It seems infinately more comfortable to keep my thumb in the frog- however, in orchestra I find that- in-order to get the strokes I like for mozart or Beethoven- it seems better to keep my thumb between the frog and the stick. Now, these issues may arise from weight and balance issues with the bow. I have tried bows where, I've always prefered to keep my thumb between the frog and the stick. I'm currently using a Lucci- a really nice Italian bow, hence- as many italian players use this type of bow, balance wise, its configured to be held with the thumb more in the frog- Where as a Grunberger may be made for the "french" grip. So, what I'm saying here is- maybe it depends on the bow. Any thoughts?

[kokiri]

Hello! I found this website, for other string inst.s too but it's good, not necessarily different holds, but things to pay attention too when you're holding the bow (on other pages of the site too) I found it helpful

http://www.uvm.edu/~mhopkins/string/...bowhold17.html

(^.^)

[BMason]

My bow hold is essentially a mix between the cello hold and the "flat." Wheras the cello hold calls for a higher pinky and wrist, I drop the pinky down to about the middle knuckle and the wrist stays at the same angle as the hand.

What I take from the cello hold is the more Galamianesque aspects. Every finger acts as a spring. All must be engaged in some way or another. The most important fingers are the first two and the thumb, or as Paul Ellison describes it, "the golden triangle." The majority of control is in the golden triangle.

The ring finger is more of a shock absorber. It is not as engaged in the actual control of movement, but it is active at all times, even if it's just support.

The pinky plays an important role in the up bow. This is why you drop it back down. The positioning of the pinky allows more leverage and is, in my opinion, the most important finger in spicatto. The support and groundedness the pinky adds to the equation keeps the entire right hand stable.