French or German?

[Trabo]

Im finally going to quit wondering and make a move to get a nice bow. I am primarily a jazz player, but on several pieces (specifically ballads) I need a bow that can get the job done. Now I know this is all about personal feel and comfort, but as a jazz player should I be leaning torwards one or the other. Since im not a classical player, im looking for the most conventional of the two.

[Dave Muscato]

I am the *wrong* person to ask, but as I understand it, French is more for jazz or faster playing and German for slower/softer stuff like ballads.

I know that François Rabbath highly recommends French over German in his DVD, "The Art of the Bow," as his technique is pretty well centered around it:

http://www.artofthebow.com/

An old Talkbass thread with some info about French vs. German:

Art of the Bow Question

It's apparently also easier to switch from arco to pizz on a French bow than a German one.

I'm an electric player just beginning to get interested in double-bass, don't even own one yet - perhaps some other TBers can give you a better answer!

[Trabo]

Thanks for the reply

[Hemispheres85]

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

I am the *wrong* person to ask, but as I understand it, French is more for jazz or faster playing and German for slower/softer stuff like ballads.

Yeah, It's quite a bit different than your explanation. Great links links, though!

You can play anything on either bows, jazz or classical, fast or slow just as well. Some say French bows give you more agility, while Germans are much easier to begin on. I personally find it much easier to do an arco-pizz transition using a German bow.

At least with a French bow, you need to have a very particular bow hold which is difficult for many but in the end rewarding.

If you're just looking to use a bow once in a while for jazz, I would say get a German. Take a lesson or two with a teacher who plays a German bow and they can get you on the right foot.

[ForestThump]

I would say that a French bow allows more agility and finesse.
German bows are better for "more thrusty" higher volume classical orchestral playing such as Beethoven symphonies.
French grip might be a bit more challenging in the beginning but is definitely worth it.

[dchan]

When I started playing the bass, I personally thought that French offered more finesse and a sweeter tone than the German bow. Of course, this was before I heard Gary Karr or Joel Quarrington. The point is, I guess, that if you work hard and long enough at your bowing, neither bow offers any sort of real advantage over the other. But initially, you will probably see the differences as mentioned in every other post in this thread.

[Shaun Kelley]

I play French,the only reasion being that was the bow available when I started playing. I do occasionally use a Germngrip when I have to play a quiet tremolo (at the tip) for a very long time.

[LM Bass]

Whichever bow your teacher plays. . .

[anonymous12251111]

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

French is more for jazz or faster playing and German for slower/softer stuff like ballads.

I know that François Rabbath highly recommends French over German in his DVD, "The Art of the Bow," as his technique is pretty well centered around it:

K, this is not correct. Francois doesn't suggest one bow over the other, all he talks about is the French bow because that is what he plays. Also, both bows can do exactly what the other bow can do in terms of technique, it just takes more work in different areas.

Basic rule of thumb! French bow if you have shorter arms, German bow if you have longer arms. There are obviously people who overlap in these categories, but for a beginner this is a good way to decide what will work better for you.

[jisbass]

OP said he/she is already an established pizz player. So, it would make sense to use the bow that's more comfortable to play w/o changing the already established playing position (although some adjustment might be necessary).

Depending on your body shape/size, and your bass shape/size, German and French bows require different positioning and mechanics. so try both and see which one allows you to play more comfortably without adjusting your current stance/sitting position too much.

A teacher would be very helpful.

[JayR]

For what it's worth, I find German bow to be slightly more convenient for jazz playing, because with bow-in-hand you can still execute most pizz techniques in the normal fashion. French I've found is harder to do this with (such as fast two-finger walking, etc)

[fish slapper]

Originally Posted by LM Bass

Whichever bow your teacher plays. . .

+1. Simple but true

[gservicehi]

can you use the bow with metal flatwound strings ? i just started playing upright after many years on electric.....

[Andrew McGregor]

You don't use roundwound strings on upright, full stop.

So, yes, but not all strings are particularly good to bow on.

[Eli_Upright12]

Also another thing is there is a long tradition of German bow in Jazz, other than Ron Carter and Richard Davis most of the prominent jazz bass players who bow or bowed use/used german, like Slam Stewart and Paul Chambers.

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by Trabo

Im finally going to quit wondering and make a move to get a nice bow. I am primarily a jazz player, but on several pieces (specifically ballads) I need a bow that can get the job done. Now I know this is all about personal feel and comfort, but as a jazz player should I be leaning torwards one or the other. Since im not a classical player, im looking for the most conventional of the two.

For Jazz I recommend German. It is just easier to get started with and just works out better for people where arco is not the first priority.
Both bows are great, but I would guess German is more the bow for you.
French takes a lot more effort to even get going in the beginning.
Both bows take the same effort over time to fully master.
Mingus played French because he came from 'cello, Paul Chambers and Slam Stewart played German. It is not a bad idea to get both and check it out with a teacher who knows both grips.

[hdiddy]

German is also more ergonomically friendly. IMO, it seems to be easier to get the delicate articulation with the french but don't listen to me. I just say Diana Gannett(German bow) play this weekend doing a number highly difficult arrangements up in the nosebleed section of the fingerboard. Just wow! Close your eyes and you won't be able to tell what type of grip she's using. Cello players, eat your hearts out. :P

[damonsmith]

Diana Gannett was in town? I need to pay more attention!

[Eli_Upright12]

Originally Posted by hdiddy

German is also more ergonomically friendly. IMO, it seems to be easier to get the delicate articulation with the french but don't listen to me. I just say Diana Gannett(German bow) play this weekend doing a number highly difficult arrangements up in the nosebleed section of the fingerboard. Just wow! Close your eyes and you won't be able to tell what type of grip she's using. Cello players, eat your hearts out. :P

Was that the Golden Gate festival?
She's one of the modern masters of the German bow, I had a lesson and a master class with her at the Richard Davis Bass Conference and was blown away. Also, my teacher is a student of hers so I get a lot of her knowledge passed down to me.

[hdiddy]

Yeah. Golden Gate Bass Camp. Barry Green (organizer), David Murray, David Young, and a bunch of others I can't remember right now. John Clayton did the Jazz Workshop along with Kristen Korb and a few others. It was mostly teens for the camp and a handful of older farts for the Ray Brown workshop.