French players, what made you switch to german? (same q for german players to french)

[natselection]

Hey, i was wondering what made you switch to a different style of bow.

[jordan oconnor]

For me the switch was largely due to a sprained wrist some years ago. I had read somewhere (perhaps here on TB) of a person who had switched from French to German due to carpal tunnel and it had really helped. Since my situation was similar I thought it prudent to try a German bow out. The key for me was to stop playing entirely for a month and then come back to the German bow. This wasn’t something I planned; it was a trip that created this situation. Previously I had been trying a little German here and there but since I wasn’t as well versed on German I would go back to French, even though I felt discomfort.

I didn’t realize just how hot a topic the French/German bows and holds were. Controversy aside, I think each grip is worth investigation, much can be learned from understanding both approaches and there are amazing musicians of each school.

For me I didn’t really have a choice and the switch meant I stopped experiencing discomfort. Since I was aware of the discomfort as I played, other aspects of my playing were affected, as well as my general outlook on arco playing – I come from a jazz background. Knowing what I know now I would have switched a long time ago - and I would have told Lincoln to skip the play.

[Rob Sleeper]

I have never switched bows. French bow allllllllll the way!

[fryBASS]

I don't really have a choise of bow in my school... I've used French and German bows. Right now I'm using a French bow, and I think I like it better than the German bow.

[JimGullen]

Greetings!

I started out with French 'cause that's what I showed up to my first lesson with. My teacher plays German but said I could use French since that's what I had.

Fast forward a number of years and my improving technique was bumping up against, and being limited by, my right wrist....it just wasn't flexible enough in the French grip for very fast articluations.

Try as we might, I just couldn't get past a certain point. So, I told my teacher I was thinking of switching since I wasn't progressing, he was a bit hesitant, but we discussed/thought about it for a number of weeks and decided that was the thing to do.

I took a week off, showed up at my next lesson with the cheapest German bow Shar offered and away we went. It probably took about 6 months for me to get to point with the German bow that I was at with the French, but it was well worth it. I've continued to progress and have much better bow technique now than I did two years ago when I made the switch.

For me, the German hold is much more ergonomic and efficient. I kind of wish my teacher had switched me on day 1, but it turned out fine.

Best regards!
Jim

[Phil Rowan]

I use French mostly, but I had a nice Seifert German bow I bought some years back for a very good price, and I had used it for a little while before switching back to French. I just started using the German one again, but holding like a French bow, the only reason being that it is of a much higher quality than my two French bows and it sounds great. I really need to sell it and pony up for a quality French bow :/

[mahlerbass]

I went to french because my current techer plays french bow, so I get more out of my lessons with him that way. I like the "freedom" of the french bow too, and with ALOT of practicing, i've gotten it to sound (almost) like the powerful german bow.

In my opinion, one should at least TRY to learn the other bow. Knowing german bow, I still have the sense of how natural and relaxed weight creates the biggest sound. Starting out on french, I wouldn't have a good sense of this important concept, because the german grip allows one to have weight transfered in a very efficient manner.

Now that I think about it, from the wrist up, there is pretty much no difference between a french bow arm and a german bow arm, anyone else noticed this?

[reedo35]

When I started, I used German bow, because that is what they had at school. When I got a teacher, he played french, so I switched. Then I met Francois Rabbath and became commited to french. I still pick up my german stick every now and then, though.
I admire the power you can get with a german bow, and the grip does seem more natural, but I love the control I have with the french bow, and after practicing with it for years, I feel pretty
comfortable and relaxed with it.

[Anonymous75966]

<bump>

Originally Posted by mahlerbass

Now that I think about it, from the wrist up, there is pretty much no difference between a french bow arm and a german bow arm, anyone else noticed this?

Yes and no - I'd say the pronation (French) vs supination (German) makes for changes up to the elbow, although the points of initiating and articulating sound are essentially the same - wrist, elbow, fingers, shoulder, etc.

I've been hacking around with other people's German bows and I'm starting to think I might have to get one ... I've been wanting to get more German chops happening for a while anyway, if only to be able to teach both bows.

I've played French for 12 years, many years of cello before that in a previous life. Did one semester on German in school and stopped when I got tendonitis - I was being taught with, let's say an overly strict and somewhat misguided application of Gary Karr technique: locked wrist, locked elbow, which we all know is wrong, wrong, wrong. I've always thought the kinetics of German are a little more efficient but never managed to get a natural-feeling hold on the stick - although these days, the German stick just falls into my hand, it's weird. Of course, I'm thinking - dammit! just when I thought I'd got to a point where I'd figured things out, here's another thing to think about. I figure knowing both is good anyway - as a frustrated drummer, I think it's like traditional vs matched grips, and most drummers can switch those around.

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by Dave Chokroun

I figure knowing both is good anyway - as a frustrated drummer, I think it's like traditional vs matched grips, and most drummers can switch those around.

I am really glad to know both, I use both on a German. I flip between grips pretty fast.
Some times I have to make my self play some that would easier with a the French grip, like stuff on the E string with German just so I don't lose it.

[toman]

I switched because of going to study with a teacher who insisted on it. I'm glad I did though, because I feel it is a more versitile grip. I use the Streicher technique, and I feel it has a lot to offer both in orchestra and solo playing, with quick power and clean articulation, respectively.

[Ludwig]

I learned playing bass with a german bow. After several years I started to learn cello, too, and I switched to a french bass bow to be consistent. Now I am switching back to the german bow grip, because the switch between bowing and pizzicato is much easier for me with that grip and I have to play several pieces, where that switch happens a lot.
Regarding bowing, I can play both grips without problems, there are advantages for each of the grips depending on the technical problem to solve. But I never figured out a fast way to switch between french grip and pizz and back holding the bow over the bass. Geting the correct bow grip after pizz seems the most difficult. I have the same problem with the cello, but pizz is not played as often there and the much smaller bow makes the change a little easier.

[Kaden]

when i first started playing i used french bow because thats what my school supplied me with but as i progressed i switched to german. I changed to german because i found that i could control it better and i got a much louder clearer low end sound than i did with the french. It is also in my experience much easier to controll in fast passages like the trio in Beethovens 5th 3rd movement.