German bow best for gut strings?

[ricobasso]

I'm continuing to find bowing gut strings a challenge. I want to keep using gut because of the occasional slap gigs and that old fashioned jazz pizz sound. However, at home I'm mostly practising with the bow. It's a real struggle to get the strings started. I'm using Pops rosin. That seems to grip the gut best but I still have to use a lot of pressure onto the strings and this causes my grip on the bow to shift during playing. I've tried gripping my french bow as if it were a german bow and this seems to make it easier to put pressure on the strings without the grip shifting. I'm inclined towards buying a german bow to try it for real.

Anyone else been through this and able to offer advice?

[MaxJohnson]

How long have you been playing with the bow? If it hasn't been that long, and the german bow seems more comfortable and fits with your playing better, it may be a good idea to try it out. If you've logged years on the french bow, it may not be worth it, but if you're having trouble with the bow, and german seems more reasonable, why not give it a spin?

[ricobasso]

I've been playing on and off with the bow since 1970 but only moved over to gut strings for about the last 2/3 years. Never had much trouble with the french bow on steel or hybrid strings, only on nylon and gut.

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

You might have good results with an older bow made before steel strings were invented.

The clip below is something Andrew Goodlett sent me after I sold him a circa-1850 "transitional" bow, made after the Dragonetti-style bow but before the advent of the modern German bow.

As you can hear, he draws a wonderful sound out of gut strings, and I see these bows change hands for between $200 and $500 when they pop up on the market.

As I recall, the bow was heavy and chunky and drew a lot more sound out of the bass than did my pernambuco Siefert German bow, even with the thin ribbon of hair that was on the old bow when I had it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee4DU4Qnt7Y

[ricobasso]

Great clip. He does get a very big powerful sound. That bow looks like there's more room for his whole hand rather than the modern german bow frog.

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

The bow was definitely a Flintstones brontosaurus bone compared to my modern German. It weighed 180 grams if that tells you anything. I'll have to see if I still have photos of it.

[DC Bass]

I've found that less pressure and more speed makes for a better arco sound with plain gut strings...

YMMV and all that!

Joe

[ricobasso]

MMDV. More speed produces nothing but squeaks. I need to dig in to get the note started.

[E.O.M.]

Fyi, those are solo Permanents in the video.

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Interesting. He bought it from me specifically to play early music. In any case, it bowed on gut better than any stick I've ever had.

[ricobasso]

Originally Posted by E.O.M.

Fyi, those are solo Permanents in the video.

That's surprising. They sound very gut-like to me.

[ricobasso]

Have bought a German bow. Will report back after I've tried it for a while.

[ricobasso]

Well I can report back, so far so good. I bought a light baroque style German type bow for not very much. I didn't want to invest a lot of money in what could have been a waste of time but I am finding it easier to bow on gut with the new bow. It does seem to me to be easier to get the right pressure onto the string pulling and pushing the bow with the palm facing the direction of travel.

I will now have to be patient while different muscles build up strength and stamina. I'll report back after I've been at it for longer than this honeymoon period.