German bow frog size

[Jeff Guevin]

Hi all,

As a little distraction from my French bow woes, I wonder if you all can help me with a German bow question. I don't have small hands (I'm 6'1" and my hands are average for my height), but I find that the frog of my German bow just feels too big in my hand--my fingers all end up being just about straight to get them positioned at the end of the frog. It's not terribly uncomfortable, but I definitely don't have as much control as I'd have with a more curved shape to my fingers. I'm sure I can find another bow with a smaller/shorter frog, but I'd like to draw on the wealth of experience and snarkiness that is TB before I start looking.

So, I wonder if you German bow players can tell me how long the frog is on your bow(s)? Anyone have knowledge of the "average" or "preferred" dimensions? I measured right at the stick (not sure if that's correct), and mine is 73mm.

Double entendres also welcome.

-Jeff

[bejoyous]

Here's Reid Hudson's website with his dimensions:
http://members.shaw.ca/reidhudson/bo...assmodels.html

My "good" bow is 56mm at the ferrule and 58mm at the back of the slide to the top of the stick. My Glasser spare is 58mm and 63 mm.

[Jeff Guevin]

bejoyous,

Thanks for the info and links. As a followup--yesterday I spent some hours trying out bows in the sub-$600 category (synethetic, Brazilwood, and Pernambuco), and found that my "crappy" Chinese german bow sounds better than anything I tried. And I'm certain it's not just because I'm "used to it"--I'm actually not, since I've been trying (somewhat unsuccessfully) to transition to French lately.

So I'm considering the possibility that I was able to get this decent-sounding bow out of Shar's bargain bin for $99 not because it's a crappy bow, but because the frog is huge and essentially unplayable by anyone but Andre the Giant (RIP).

I really don't want to shell out $$$ until I've developed more, so can I have a new, smaller frog put on a bow at a reasonable price, since the stick seems to have nice acoustic and playing properties? I have no idea if this is common practice, nor how expensive it is.

[bejoyous]

If you're happy with your stick, you could try buying a smaller German frog and have it installed for (probably) less that $200.

[Jeff Guevin]

Little update--my teacher, Prof. Gannett of the University of Michigan, showed me a different way to hold the bow that essentially made the size of the frog less relevant, and had a ton of other benefits to boot. Glad I asked her before buying a new bow! I've also been seeing improved nuance and control in my playing--things which had recently led me (rather less successfully) to try the French bow.

Maybe it's the way everyone else was already doing it, but the "new" German grip I'm using basically balances the bow on my middle finger, slightly back from the tip of the frog. My previous grip had required me to have middle and index fingers all the way at the tip of the frog, a mighty stretch on this particular bow.

It's amazing how much I've learned in two lessons--the bass is almost a new instrument now, and that's after 16 year of playing! All you self-study geeks, get yourself a teacher!!

[toman]

Yeah, the tip of the middle finger goes on the side of the stick, about 3/4 or so up the frog toward the tip, the index comes over the top, while the ring finger sits rather idlely in the middle and the pinky tip is on the ferrule underneath. The thumb either sits flat across the stick, or bends over the top, but doesn't apply preassure. In this technique, the only probalem I think you could have would be if the frog was freakishly tall, or if you had super small hands...

[Cory Palmer]

Originally Posted by toman

Yeah, the tip of the middle finger goes on the side of the stick, about 3/4 or so up the frog toward the tip, the index comes over the top, while the ring finger sits rather idlely in the middle and the pinky tip is on the ferrule underneath. The thumb either sits flat across the stick, or bends over the top, but doesn't apply preassure. In this technique, the only probalem I think you could have would be if the frog was freakishly tall, or if you had super small hands...

I haven't seen many people use this grip.

[Jeff Guevin]

Originally Posted by Cory Palmer

I haven't seen many people use this grip.

As I said, I can't speak to how common it is, but toman has indeed accurately described the grip I was taught.

[toman]

Its basically the technique that goes along with the Streicher method, but it works fine with the old dead-arm technique too.