German Bow Grip?

[BrandonTurner]

I have been a german bow player from many years and my bow had no grip . I took my bow to a well known bowmaker, who is also a professional bassist, for a rehair and she said she really liked my bow but that the balance point was a bit off and it could use a little more weight toward the frog. She suggested to get it wrapped , but before I do that, experiment first and make sure I will like it. She cut me off a piece of lead tape I think about 3 grams and put it where the grip would be. I have tried it on and off, but she was right it needed a little more balance. I had an easier time keeping the notes even and and an all around better feel for the bow.

That being said I never got it wrapped and still play with the lead tape. Not very aesthetically pleasing but the bass is hard enough to play without worrying about how good it looks.
Weight and balance does matter , try a bunch of different bows against one you are comfortable with and you will realize that a few grams could make a big difference. Also balance bows on your finger and see where the balance point is, this is important because it effects where you transfer weight to the tip to keep notes even.

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by Dr Rod

Ken

Sidbass98 stated the truth. For the German bow, the grip is not functional but 100% esthetics.

-Unless you use the French bow hold part of the time.....

[Maaaven]

My fingers touch the leather grip on my german bow.
I am almost 6'3", and can reach 10ths on a piano,
with effort. No silver wrapping for me thanks.

[stefaniw80401]

Originally Posted by billyfalconer

Your middle finger isn't on the middle of the frog? Perhaps you mean your first finger (closest to your thumb)?

No. If your middle finger is placed at the middle of the frog, then the frog would be too far out of your hand to be controllable. My middle figer easily reaches the center of the leather grip and my first finger lies on the stick between the grip and frog next to my middle finger. It's like this on both of my gr bows.

Perhaps you were thinking that my middle finger reaches the winding?

I think the leather grip is essential for german bow hold and technique. As I mentioned earlier, the thickness of the grip helps me keep the bow more perpendicular to the strings. If it weren't there, I'd have to compensate by pushing up more with my middle finger on the bottom of the stick where the leather grip ought to be. My leather grips have a smidgeon of padding under the leather outer. Almost a 1/16" maybe?

All that said, I know one German bow player that stripped off the grip and the winding stating "it looked bad". But looks are a poor reason for doing this. You need the grip, and you need to balance the bow. The winding could be optional as bow balance can be adjusted by adding more/less weight to the button by adding metal elements to the button construction.

So Ken, I like the leather grip on German bow. The balance aspect of gr bow could be done with the button design.
- Mark

[Cory Palmer]

Originally Posted by stefaniw80401

No. If your middle finger is placed at the middle of the frog, then the frog would be too far out of your hand to be controllable. My middle figer easily reaches the center of the leather grip and my first finger lies on the stick between the grip and frog next to my middle finger. It's like this on both of my gr bows.

Perhaps you were thinking that my middle finger reaches the winding?

I think the leather grip is essential for german bow hold and technique. As I mentioned earlier, the thickness of the grip helps me keep the bow more perpendicular to the strings. If it weren't there, I'd have to compensate by pushing up more with my middle finger on the bottom of the stick where the leather grip ought to be. My leather grips have a smidgeon of padding under the leather outer. Almost a 1/16" maybe?

All that said, I know one German bow player that stripped off the grip and the winding stating "it looked bad". But looks are a poor reason for doing this. You need the grip, and you need to balance the bow. The winding could be optional as bow balance can be adjusted by adding more/less weight to the button by adding metal elements to the button construction.

So Ken, I like the leather grip on German bow. The balance aspect of gr bow could be done with the button design.
- Mark

Could you take a picture of the way you hold the bow? I think I understand what you are talking about but I don't think I know anybody that holds a german bow like that. Is that a more common grip out west? I was taught to keep my fingers curved so that the middle finger is touching the frog and the index finger is on the wood right next to the frog. I use the pinky to keep the bow perpendicular to the string.

[toman]

Here's a photo of my grip. Not totally accurate since I'm half asleep and just sitting at my desk, but you get the idea. As you can see, if this bow were to have a grip, my fingers would be nowhere near it...

[stefaniw80401]

Originally Posted by Cory Palmer

Could you take a picture of the way you hold the bow? I think I understand what you are talking about but I don't think I know anybody that holds a german bow like that. Is that a more common grip out west? I was taught to keep my fingers curved so that the middle finger is touching the frog and the index finger is on the wood right next to the frog. I use the pinky to keep the bow perpendicular to the string.

Here're my pictures Cory of downbow and upbow. I just tried your bow hold as your described above by curling my middle and index fingers in a bit between the grip and edge of frog. I think any variation of your bow hold and mine is "proper". Your bow hold felt a tad less stable to me, but perhaps more articulate. Spicatto with my bow hold felt more "secure". Toman's bow hold (above) is Streicher's bow hold I believe. I don't see it much in the orchestras around me. - Mark

[mheintz]

Originally Posted by stefaniw80401

I find the leather grip on my gr bow serves as a "pad" of sorts for my middle finger.

I think that it depends on the bow, but on mine, I definitely use the grip as a pad for my middle finger. However, my grip is quite close to the frog. I think that I prefer the look without it.

[toman]

Originally Posted by stefaniw80401

Toman's bow hold (above) is Streicher's bow hold I believe. I don't see it much in the orchestras around me. - Mark

Correct. I don't think it's common anyplace, at least in this country. It's what I learned though, and it works well for me even though I've since studied other techniques.

[Silversorcerer]

I was taught the same German hold as Stefaniw80401 and my first and middle fingers both rest on the leather pad when curled. The tops of some German frogs are longer than others, but my fingers rest on the pad on all the German frogs that I've tried. I think I might miss the leather pad. I have the plastic whalebone on my bows, but I think it is just for looks and might look better without it. I do think the silver wire looks better and could be used to adjust balance. I guess I might perfer just the pad and no whalebone or wire.

[Baird]

My 0.02
My bow hold is a bit of a mix between stefanis and tomans, I keep all of my fingers curved with the tips of my index and middle finger reaching to just the end of my frog (maybe a bit longer than some) with my ring finger curved and the tip near the middle of the frog (closer to the hair than the stick) and my pinkey finger resting curved on the underside of the frog. I find the curved fingers helpful because they allow me to manipulate the bow efficiently in my hand in the same manner that curved fingers in thumb position help me get around quick passages.

Much like fingerings, I guess it really just matters what works for the player and helps them blend with a section or properly play a solo etc.