German bow recommendations (cheap, for an unwashed jazzer to practice with)

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Disclaimer: I rarely practice with a bow, and would call myself a rank beginner as regards anything arco. I can't afford to spend much money on one, but I'd like to have a German bow in the house to mess around with.

Sid King loaned me a really nice French bow a while back, and I practice making awful noises with it from time to time. I just can't get comfortable playing on the G string with the French bow, so lately, on the rare occasion that I pick it up at all, I hold it German style, which seems more comfortable all around. Sid has even agreed to help me get my German grip together and float me the odd lesson here and there if i score one, so...

What are my options for about $200 or so, and within those options, what would you guys recommend? I know that kind of money won't buy anything great, but hopefully whatever I get will be functional. Also, any advice on upgrading the stock bow hair on the cheapies would be greatly appreciated.

[bribass]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Disclaimer: I rarely practice with a bow, and would call myself a rank beginner as regards anything arco. I can't afford to spend much money on one, but I'd like to have a German bow in the house to mess around with.

Sid King loaned me a really nice French bow a while back, and I practice making awful noises with it from time to time. I just can't get comfortable playing on the G string with the French bow, so lately, on the rare occasion that I pick it up at all, I hold it German style, which seems more comfortable all around. Sid has even agreed to help me get my German grip together and float me the odd lesson here and there if i score one, so...

What are my options for about $200 or so, and within those options, what would you guys recommend? I know that kind of money won't buy anything great, but hopefully whatever I get will be functional. Also, any advice on upgrading the stock bow hair on the cheapies would be greatly appreciated.

Hey Chris, Happy New Year,

My German bow shopping has generally been in a higher price range, but a few students of mine have purchased the $99 Upton bow special and I was quite surprised at what they got for that $. They didn't suck. Ofcourse they weren't pulling tone from the bass as compared to even a $350-$500 bow, but they seemed reasonably well made and handled OK.

For something up from that I understand our friend Ken Smith has some nice bows that are made for his shop in the $200ish -$450ish range.

Their are products coming out of China now that are getting better in quality for very reasonable $.

Some collegues of mine have been very happy with the Gage shop's carbon fiber Metropolitan bow, but that goes for quite a bit more $.

FWIW I've always felt that German grip is easier for starters.

Good luck in your stick quest.

BG

[Kaden]

I am also in the Louisville area and my teacher Karl Olson ( who plays in the Louisville Orchestra and teaches at U.k) hooked me up with a pretty good Brazilwood bow at an incredible price. I believe if you can get a hold of him( maybe through Sid King) you can get a decent german bow at a good price he or one of his students always has a bow to sell but you could also check out the bows at Gollihur Music they are about $200 and his stuff is usually pretty high quality for the price. I hope this has helped you out somewhat.

[jisbass]

Wow Chris,
You asked that question as if you are a complete noob. Everyone here knows you're no noob, even if you are new to arco. That's why you're so respected. So humble.

Upton bow doesn't pull a good sound, especially for carved basses. I don't know if they improved their bows like they have with their basses.

I like Gollihur bows. They come with black hair now, so maybe they are better then the old hair.

I wish I could try the ken smith bows.

Maybe one of your students has a nice bow he/she would sell you?

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by jisbass

Wow Chris,
You asked that question as if you are a complete noob. Everyone here knows you're no noob, even if you are new to arco.

Thanks, but you've obviously not heard me try to play with a bow. Even my cat gives me an evil sideways look and slinks out of the room when I play the first few notes. (when Sid plays arco on my bass, she rubs up against his leg, purrs, and demands attention...)

Originally Posted by bribass

Hey Chris, Happy New Year,

My German bow shopping has generally been in a higher price range, but a few students of mine have purchased the $99 Upton bow special and I was quite surprised at what they got for that $. They didn't suck.

For something up from that I understand our friend Ken Smith has some nice bows that are made for his shop in the $200ish -$450ish range.

Happy New Year back atcha. That's good info to know. I do know that I'd like to have a wood bow, although I can't say why. If anybody with a lower priced German from Gary or ken would like to chime in, I'm all ears.

Originally Posted by bribass

FWIW I've always felt that German grip is easier for starters.

I've heard that, too, and think there must be some truth in it. I figure anything that gets me to pick up the stick is a good thing at this point...I can figure out the rest later, when I have the slightest clue what I'm doing with the damn thing.

Kaden - Small world! I met Karl for about one minute after one of Sid's recitals. I can't remember much except that he was a real bear of a guy, and seemed nice. Sid speaks well of him. And I see you also know Doug Elmore. Doug and I go waaaaaaaayyyyy back. Tell him i say hi when you see him. He was the bass player in my first real jazz group, and we had some good times.

I could be mistaken, but am I wrong to assume that in this price range I can pretty much order a brand that comes recommended and just put in the time with it, or should I insist on playing a bunch of them first? Also, is there any advantage to getting a top notch rehair on a cheap bow right out of the gate? Thanks in advance!

[bribass]

There IS always some variation in wood sticks even at a lower price points.

If possible get a few different ones of the same make (if possible) and compare their sound and feel. There will be variation in weight as well as feel and sound. You'd be surprised. One or another will tend to be a bit better.

With bows it is common practice for a maker or dealer to send you several (2 or more) to choose from on trial as long as you are willing to send them back and pay the shipping. Again, I've not shopped that price range, though.

I wouldn't dare speak for him, but I'd bet that someone w/ the initials KS would be willing to send Prof. Fitzgerald a couple to try IF he had them in stock.

PS- Rehairs aren't so cheap any more. $70-$100 around here. If the hair on the bow is that bad it would be hard to evaluate that bow to begin with. If you were considering purchasing a fine bow for thousands it may pay to rehair properly to eval, but on the lower end it's a large percentage of the value. Except for maybe the case of an old bow that you could get really cheap it wouldn't make sense. For this reason don't consider anything new that didn't have a 'decent' hair job and stay away from the synthetic hair-like stuff. It's worhless.

[Stan Haskins]

I got one of KSB's "Domenico" bows and am happy with it. The one I got measured up fairly well against some other Pernambuco and carbon fiber bows I tried in the $600 range. My teacher has told me it's light enough and well-balanced.

I did end up getting it rehaired not long after I got it, though, and I think it really needed it.

[pthorstenson]

Hi Chris

I bought a german Ary bow from Upton for about $250. Its been great so far and light years ahead of the cheap Glasser I was using. It appears to be well built with an ebony frog and should last many years. FWIW, my teacher said the bow gave a sound that was more rough and coarse than smooth. I tried his very nice carbon fiber bow from David Gage and he was right - the Gage bow offered a smoother sound but both sounds were very usable.

Bottom line - Ary was a good usable choice.

Also, I found Nymans rosin to give a smoother sound than Pops with the Ary bow.

PJ

[scott reed]

Chris, did you get your own bow?

If not, I might be able to hook you up.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I have a borrowed german bow at the moment that a student is let me use. If I end up liking it enough, I'll be looking to buy one. Right now, I'm still in the "scaring my cat" stage.

[brianh]

You might look into the plastic or fiberglass bows that Lemur carries. I don't know the exact maker...but it should be $40-50 I think.

I used one for a year or so and really was shocked at how nice it was, especially for $40-50. It's certainly not a top quality bow but I used one for a while in college while I saved for a good one. I had a hard time getting it to bounce especially well, but even still I could play through some challenging stuff with it. Most players I know who have tried them feel the same way.

[Mark Carlsen]

Chris ,
I second the Brazilwood bows that are out there... fairly cheap, but usually pretty well made and I was lucky to get a smaller one, german style on E-Bay for 28 bucks a few years back.
I play both styles, learned first French, self taught on German and this current bow allows me to do both stvles on the same bow.[Look out for the Bow Police...]
I have $300 to 600 dollar permanbuco bows that are not as good as the $28 dollar bow, go figure. You would do fine w. one of the Brazilwoods...

[Jake]

If you are able to spring for a nicer German bow, check out Arcos-Brazil pernambuco bows. They're around $600. The one that I have is one of the nicest German bow I've tried at any price.

[SteveFreides]

You can practice making awful noises on a $65 Glasser fiberglass bow. Nothing wrong with that, you'll work out some of the kinks, and you'll have it around when you need a beater bow later.

Just my newb-ish opinion. I've been through that one, a composite that was around $150 and a definite improvement, and now a wooden bow. While I definitely prefer the wooden one, even the cheapy sounds fine in the hands of someone who knows how to play it better than I do, so I figure there's a lesson in that, too. I figure if I sound crappy on a good bow and just about equally crappy on a cheap one, there's no reason I can't try to figure out some things on the cheap one.

I have no idea what part of the world you're in, but if it's metro NYC, you're welcomed to borrow my $65 Glasser.

-S-

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by SteveFreides

You can practice making awful noises on a $65 Glasser fiberglass bow. Nothing wrong with that, you'll work out some of the kinks, and you'll have it around when you need a beater bow later.-S-

Just be sure to get the one with real hair, not fiberglass "hair". That's what I'm using now, it "get's her done" as they say.

[SteveFreides]

My inexpensive, Glasser, fiberglass bow has real hair. That's where I draw the line, but none of the places I've dealt with about bows sell anything but bows with real hair, even if they're fiberglass.

-S-

[scott reed]

I'm with Ed on the Glasser bow - the real hair is the only way to go.

We used to tape sinkers or fish weights inside that plastic frog to
make it feel like the weight of an ebony frog - you could dig in a
bit better that way.

I had a Glasser bow melt inside my car one summer. I"ve used
wood bows since!

[Blaine]

i got one of the carbon fiber bows from yita on ebay. they're like $130. i like it alot. it seems to grab the string very quickly.it does have a bit brighter sound which seems normal for CF bows.my other 2 bows are each $1500+ bows by the way.
Added benifit. i was in italy in july for a gig. the bass was rented(and horrible) and i took this bow. on one leg of the trip the security screener made me check it(the other 5 flights had no problem carrying it on). i was very pissed and ready to start pleading, then realized it was a $100 bow and laughed. man, things have changed with bass travel.