Hair Length/Tension Question

[anonymous12251111]

So I've been experimenting lately with playing with loose hair. I was amazed at how much more tone I achieved by playing with loosish hair. The stick is not hitting the strings or anything to that extreme, but the hair will definitely touch the stick if I apply pressure. I found by using this method I can play really fast aggressive Beethoven passages with literally no pressure. My question is: Is it possible to get a rehair done where the hair won't touch the stick but I'll still be able to get that same feel? I'm scared that my hair is too loose, but everyone is saying how much better I sound with the hair looser. Is there anything I can read up on in terms of bow hair tightness? I've searched the threads and have found some useful stuff. Should I talk to a bow maker/re-hair specialist?

Thx!

[ProgRapture]

As a long haired rocker, I was thoroughly confused by your question. I heartily admire upright players and want one eventually (the bass, not the player).

However, when it comes to hair, I recommend Garnie Fructis. JK, I hope someone does answer your question.

[Basschair]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

So I've been experimenting lately with playing with loose hair. I was amazed at how much more tone I achieved by playing with loosish hair. The stick is not hitting the strings or anything to that extreme, but the hair will definitely touch the stick if I apply pressure. I found by using this method I can play really fast aggressive Beethoven passages with literally no pressure. My question is: Is it possible to get a rehair done where the hair won't touch the stick but I'll still be able to get that same feel? I'm scared that my hair is too loose, but everyone is saying how much better I sound with the hair looser. Is there anything I can read up on in terms of bow hair tightness? I've searched the threads and have found some useful stuff. Should I talk to a bow maker/re-hair specialist?

Thx!

First, I can't think of anything offhand that would lead me to think you're risking the well-being of yourself, your bow, or your bass by playing with the hair loosened. Other than possibly scraping the underside of the bow stick on the strings, it probably wouldn't do any real damage.

If I'm understanding your question correctly, you're wondering about getting a rehair that leaves a little extra slack on the hair? If this is correct, it can be done fairly easily. It's more risky to leave too much tension on the hair (cutting the hair too short), as the hair can/will change a bit with weather and humidity shifts. You could end up with quite a bit of tension on the stick without meaning to.

Ideally, a person who specializes is bow work will ask you where you live and play the majority of the time, and will gauge the length of hair they put on based on the environment. If you want a little extra length, just ask. It's not going to be an inch (as that would make it too difficult to get any tension); more likely about 3mm or so.

Again, nothing comes to mind as far as risks go, as long as you can still thread the screw through the eyelet to adequately secure the frog to the stick, I believe you'll probably be fine.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Well, if I play with my Bow hair too loose and try and dig in, the hairs hitting the stick break if brittle, old or if rubbed too hard or too long. Also, this depends a lot on the camber of your bow. In time, the hair pulls out of the frog a bit naturally so it just gets looser sooner or later. I don't know how you could play Beethoven with loose hair. Some parts you just have to dig in and get some sound out of the Bass. I just did the 3rd, 9th and 6th over the last few months and I don't see how I could play thru any of them with loose hair. I dig in naturally so maybe it's just me.

[JoeyNaeger]

Perhaps looser is a better word. I keep my bow pretty tight usually, however I tried it a bit loser the other day. That really heavy orchestral spicatto became a lot easier for me to pull off. For soloing, I still like the bow tighter.

[xphoenixinflame]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

I dig in naturally so maybe it's just me.

Doesn't this cause tension in the hand? I mean, don't get me wrong, I've played Beethoven 3 and 9, both in the last year, and I dig like hell in some passages, but aren't I not supposed to? It's a "pressed" sound vs. a more natural sound? I'm not asking to put you down or question your technique, I'm asking in order to see how I can improve certain things about my playing. I'm a french bow player with some hand tension issues that I'm eternally trying to resolve.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by xphoenixinflame

Doesn't this cause tension in the hand? I mean, don't get me wrong, I've played Beethoven 3 and 9, both in the last year, and I dig like hell in some passages, but aren't I not supposed to? It's a "pressed" sound vs. a more natural sound? I'm not asking to put you down or question your technique, I'm asking in order to see how I can improve certain things about my playing. I'm a french bow player with some hand tension issues that I'm eternally trying to resolve.

Pressing and pulling are two different things. I have played Bass in some form or another for over 40 years. I played all the rehearsals of the 9th with my Bazin Bow which is short and only 136 grams. That week I bought a new toy, a Geza Balint Bow at 146 grams. The pp off the string passages were harder because of the weight of the bow. Digging in was not as hard but by the 4th movement (the piece ran 75 minutes straight through) I was looking for the rests to shake out my hand as I was cramping up. Page 25, letter 'T' through the end, check on your insurance policy. Due to other area orchestras having concerts the same weekend, we only had 4 Basses in the Section. My stand partner and I worked a bit harder to make up for the 2 missing Basses we needed to have 6 at a minimum. The Orchestra was huge (just not in the Basses) and we also had a 100 piece chorus and 6 Opera soloists as well. The Tenor and Bass singer afterwards at our late dinner gathering complimented us (Bass 1 & 2 ) on how well the Basses sounded. They thought we worked our Bows off, and we did!

When you see sF, FF or even F, digging in somehow is the only way to play unless you are using an Amp with a volume pedal!

From your profile you seem to be maybe in your early 20s. Check back with me in 20-30 years if I am still around and then tell me what you think. Hopefully I will remember but don't count on it..lol

[JoeyNaeger]

Originally Posted by xphoenixinflame

Doesn't this cause tension in the hand? I mean, don't get me wrong, I've played Beethoven 3 and 9, both in the last year, and I dig like hell in some passages, but aren't I not supposed to? It's a "pressed" sound vs. a more natural sound? I'm not asking to put you down or question your technique, I'm asking in order to see how I can improve certain things about my playing. I'm a french bow player with some hand tension issues that I'm eternally trying to resolve.

Your hand doesn't have to tense up when digging in. There is a difference between strength and tension. You can be applying a lot of torque on the bow with your index finger and back of hand while still having the rest of your hand being flexible. What I suspect your doing is gripping too hard with your thumb. I think every french bow player experiences this problem at some point. I try to imagine the thumb as the fulcrum. Instead of pushing the thumb into the stick, imagine moving the stick around the thumb. Of course, you should seek advise from your teacher for problems like this.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by JoeyNaeger

Your hand doesn't have to tense up when digging in. There is a difference between strength and tension. You can be applying a lot of torque on the bow with your index finger and back of hand while still having the rest of your hand being flexible. What I suspect your doing is gripping too hard with your thumb. I think every french bow player experiences this problem at some point. I try to imagine the thumb as the fulcrum. Instead of pushing the thumb into the stick, imagine moving the stick around the thumb. Of course, you should seek advise from your teacher for problems like this.

Not mentioned but important is the quality of the Bow you have. I have been lucky enough to own great Bows and I never have to force the sound out even at the Tip. Compensating for the Bow quality with extra pressure especially at the Tip results in either painful playing, bad technique developing along the process or both.

Some posters here do not list their Bass or Bow that they use. This would help to know what you are dealing with.

[dchan]

Originally Posted by JoeyNaeger

Your hand doesn't have to tense up when digging in. There is a difference between strength and tension. You can be applying a lot of torque on the bow with your index finger and back of hand while still having the rest of your hand being flexible. What I suspect your doing is gripping too hard with your thumb. I think every french bow player experiences this problem at some point. I try to imagine the thumb as the fulcrum. Instead of pushing the thumb into the stick, imagine moving the stick around the thumb. Of course, you should seek advise from your teacher for problems like this.

I think of it more as the bow is held up by your four fingers only. When the fingers are spread out evenly, they provide a strong and solid base at the frog and grip.

Your thumb is not there to hold down the bow with any sort of force. It is simply there to prevent the bow from tipping over.

And, of course, seek advice from your teacher and fellow bassists in person as well. Of course, I personally have a heck of a time translating a bunch of words into real life playing, but that's me.

[anonymous12251111]

I'm honestly finding that my bow has too much camber, the middle of it is so curved that it almost always touched the hair. So I have to make it quite stiff for the middle of the bow to not touch the hair, but I like the sound and feel of a bow that has less tension and looser hair. I'm kind of hating my bow right now despite how expensive it was,