Ken Smith's "Sartory" French style bow

pjwolf · #1 08-03-2006, 02:14 PM

I just received my new "Sartory" French style bow from Ken Smith yesterday. This bow is incredible! It is pernambuco and weighs about 140gms and it is so balanced, it feels like a feather in my hand!

A few months ago I bought an Ary pernambuco French bow from Lemur Music for almost twice the price and I like Ken's bow better. It is easier to hold and play....not bad for only $400, eh?

Now I'm thinking I should of bought the $600 model..........

KSB - Ken Smith · #2 08-03-2006, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjwolf

I just received my new "Sartory" French style bow from Ken Smith yesterday. This bow is incredible! It is pernambuco and weighs about 140gms and it is so balanced, it feels like a feather in my hand!

A few months ago I bought an Ary pernambuco French bow from Lemur Music for almost twice the price and I like Ken's bow better. It is easier to hold and play....not bad for only $400, eh?

Now I'm thinking I should of bought the $600 model..........

I am at home and don't have my records handy but look at the name stamped on the Bow. I think we were out of the Loveri model and might have sent you the last C. Loveri model we had at the time.

By the way, thanks for the great review..

pjwolf · #3 08-04-2006, 10:44 AM

Ken, you are most welcome! I am putting in a lot more time on the bow - this is the way it should be (since I've never bought a "really good" bow).....thank you!

So..........................................ah, emm,....do I owe you more $$$? The bow is stamped C. Loveri.

KSB - Ken Smith · #4 08-04-2006, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjwolf

Ken, you are most welcome! I am putting in a lot more time on the bow - this is the way it should be (since I've never bought a "really good" bow).....thank you!

So..........................................ah, emm,....do I owe you more $$$? The bow is stamped C. Loveri.

Nope, all square.... Enjoy..

LouisF · #5 08-04-2006, 11:48 PM

Ken,

What are the weights on your German bows?

Louis

KSB - Ken Smith · #6 08-05-2006, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisF

Ken,

What are the weights on your German bows?

Louis

Weights vary with them as well as the French models. The few I have in stock now are from 136-142 grams. The German Frog is bigger but the Screw is only Ebony without any silver or nickle silver on the grip unless ordered. The French Head/Tip is bigger than the German model. The Sticks measure about the same length on my models so the weights will be similar mostly. One bow I have in the upper range has the Silver wrap grip and weighed 142 when it came in but weights 140 now. Bows weights do vary from season to season as well due to temperture and humidity. I am sure that occassionally I will get some light and some heavy ones as there is not that much science in the final weights. I have a spec request to my supplier from 132-146 grams. I am sure I will get requests from time to time for heavier or lighter Bows. The only thing I can say to that is that balance, playability, tone and performance is not something you can order by weight alone. A well weighted 140 gram Bow is plenty heavy and the 132-146gr spec covers most of what people will need in a good working Bow.

I was into heavier Bows myself for awhile because of a nice Eibert Bow I had at 152 grams but my former Bultitude and current Lipkins are in the 140 range. My Bazin is only 136 but if it was Silver wrapped and full lenght it would be in the upper 140s I'm sure.

I hope I answered your question without too much additional info.

LouisF · #7 08-05-2006, 09:55 AM

Ken,

Thanks... as always very helpful and informative. Roger Zabinski mentioned to me in an e-exchange that he felt 140-145 was the best weight for German bows and he (and you) are probably right. My own prefernce is slightly lights @ 135-6, and my Prochownik bow weighs in at 126.

Louis

KSB - Ken Smith · #8 08-16-2006, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisF

Ken,

Thanks... as always very helpful and informative. Roger Zabinski mentioned to me in an e-exchange that he felt 140-145 was the best weight for German bows and he (and you) are probably right. My own prefernce is slightly lights @ 135-6, and my Prochownik bow weighs in at 126.

Louis

I think the best weight depends on many things including the player, the Bass, the type of music and the quality of the Bow itself.

A well made 132-136 gram bow will perform better than a not so well made or un-balanced 140-150 gram bow.

Weight of a Bow is like weight of a person. Yes, you need to be heavy enough so the wind doesn't blow you away but being heavier or lighter within reason is not a comparison.

I have a 126 gram French Bow that smokes a 150+ gram bow a customer came by with one day and I have a 152 gram bow that out plays a 142 gram bow for heavy stuff but the 142 has a sweeter tone. Also, depending on which Bass I play and how its set-up, the 142 may work better and the 152 might choke the tone of that bass.

Weight alone is partially an after-measurement. The quality and performance of the bow is the key. Buying by weight alone is buying blind!

LouisF · #9 08-16-2006, 06:12 PM

... almost (buying blind)...

I take your point about the varying relationships of bows to basses and weights to balance etc, but (and, heaven help me for saying this) this may be an more among us (what?) more highly evolved GERMAN bow players

, but I do think the heft of the bow is a factor, and that if a dealer (say) told me s/he had a bow in the 130 range rather than, say, the 150, I'd be more interested (all things being equal) in the lighter bow.

But, as I've said often in these threads, my preferences are based on the fact that I do a lot of writing, have certain physical problems with my hands etc - and that some choices get made (such as my preference for Corelli strings over a thicker, perhaps "better" string) as compensation.

I find that if I've been working on a script or a book all day and want to unwind (I know I'll do time in Purgatory for what I'm doing to the Bach 1rst Cello suite!), then sometimes even the 126 Prochownik feels onerous.

I've even looked into (but not tried) the S, della Torre "heavy bow" concept (some with weight of baseball bats!) as an alternative concept. His point - that the greater weight of the (German) bow down on the string seems to work for him and a few others.

Given all that, what did you say the bows weighed?

Louis

kontrabass · #10 08-27-2006, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisF

(I know I'll do time in Purgatory for what I'm doing to the Bach 1rst Cello suite!)

Haha, Louis. That one put a smile on my face!

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisF

I've even looked into (but not tried) the S, della Torre "heavy bow" concept (some with weight of baseball bats!) as an alternative concept. His point - that the greater weight of the (German) bow down on the string seems to work for him and a few others.

I have spoken with Dennis Masuzzo (advocate of fifths tuning...wrote first fifths method book for bass, etc), who was persuaded by Silvio (in a New Jersey airport!) that heavy bows are the way to go. According to Silvio, the light and delicate PP sections on his Bassetto CD are only possible with a heavy bow.

I am interested enough to try it, but I will have to see it to believe it.

Finding a 300g (give or take) german bow may be a problem, though.

Cheers.

LouisF · #11 08-27-2006, 11:55 AM

Check with Donovan Stokes, who's at Georgia State. He plays with a "heavy bow". There is some logic to the argument (especially for German bow players). It also has to do with the angle at which the bass is held... Are volume and speed gained by the bow going left to right, etc, or up and down.

I also know a couple of people who tried it and just plain hurt themselves.

The only person making the bows, as far as I know is Henk te Heikbrink (?) in Holland. I have is email and right spelling some where (or you can get it off Della Torre's site). He's very accessible.

Louis