making a short bow

**Matthew Tucker** · #1 01-12-2010, 12:37 PM

(I posted this in "setup" but moved it here because hey, its a bow, not setup!)

I'm working on my first handmade bow stick right now. I want to try a really short one with a wide ribbon.

My own design. The stick is Tasmanian blackwood. The tip facing is made from an old piano ivory. The frog will be a "bought one".

I have no instruction manual and am making this up on the fly

**Matthew Tucker** · #2 01-12-2010, 02:40 PM

last night's progress

Hardest bit so far has been cutting out the mortise neatly.

The frog is from China. Perfectly good.

Now I have to work out how to drill a long 4mm hole in the stick without going crooked!

bejoyous · #3 01-12-2010, 06:25 PM

I recall the director of the National Youth Orchestra of Canada talking about a short "pit bow" for use in music halls, operettas, musicals and the like. He said it was short so the player could stand closer to the wall and the style doesn't really require notes longer than a half note.

Whay are you making your short?

**Matthew Tucker** · #4 01-12-2010, 08:16 PM

Yes! Short notes! Well, kind of. I don't have the time or the patience to practice enough to be good and confident with a proper bow, yet. But some of the music I am playing like tango and gypsy tunes requires - no, sounds better than pizz with - lots of quick short bow strokes.

i saw a bass player with local dance band the Transylvaniacs; he had a rustic home made job and kept his rosin in a slice of shin bone. Worked great for that hungarian music. Wooomp woomp woomp

Bill Bentgen · #5 01-13-2010, 07:01 AM

Matthew,

That is some really fine work!

SLivinghouse · #6 01-14-2010, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

last night's progress

Now I have to work out how to drill a long 4mm hole in the stick without going crooked!

Thanks for posting this! Interesting. So what about making a jig with the bow clamped to a sled and running them along a fence attached to the drill press repeatedly drilling small holes? Essentially a small mortising jig that cabinet makers use.

**Matthew Tucker** · #7 01-14-2010, 02:16 AM

no actually I meant the long hole down the END of the bow to hold the adjuster thread.

But yeah, I'll make a jig and use a long bit in the drill press. Or find someone with a lathe!

Heifetzbass · #8 01-14-2010, 04:37 AM

Nice Matthew! Are you going to hair it yourself?

I swore that I never wanted to try bow work, but one of my friends is a master bow maker, and another of my buddies gave me a piece of pernambuco to "play with" that wasn't good enough for him to use. (Blank's only good for a cello bow.)

Wow... you have kinda inspired me to break out the magnifying glass and little tools and give it a whirl...

Nice work as always, and I did that stick!

Brian

**Matthew Tucker** · #9 01-14-2010, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heifetzbass

Nice Matthew! Are you going to hair it yourself?

Yes. I think its important that you know a little about hairing a bow in order to be able to carve the mortise correctly; it needs to be a special shape with the walls slanted the right way.

As far as getting the right camber is concerned, I have done one bending session just to prove that it WOULD bend, then I'll finish the stick, then have another go to see if I can increase the camber. Its a fairly thick stick, like the frog end of a regular bow, so the amount of bend in it is not as pronounced. But to be honest, I have no idea how this is going to turn out, nor what the "right" camber is. I'll just go by hunch as usual :-)

ctregan · #10 01-15-2010, 02:03 AM

Great idea Matthew, you always keep TB interesting (and inspiring) with your projects.
I re-haired a few bows a wile back and the luthier I bought the hair from kept asking me, "You really want to re-hair a bass bow?" The hardest part for me was keeping all the hairs under the same tension, your bow will be extra wide, so keep that in mind.

Tango is great; It fills the dance floor. Its a lot of fun playing bass, when folks are dancing as opposed to staring! (IMHO).

**Matthew Tucker** · #11 01-15-2010, 10:35 PM

Centering the drill with a collet-style endpin plug!

Drilling out the mortise for the slide.

Cleaning up the walls

Functional, not very pretty, but a blind man would be glad to see it:

Now to "hair it up"

JoeyNaeger · #12 01-16-2010, 02:41 PM

Impressive work. I admire your courage for taking these sorts of projects on and sharing them with us.

George700DL · #13 01-20-2010, 12:32 PM

Hi Matthew,

I am new to the forum, and I will introduce myself properly when I get more time and when I finish a bass that I am building - another week or so.

But a short reply: I play Hungarian/Transylvanian/Romanian music and the bass I'm building will be a 3-stringer (plain gut). The bow I use is the kind you described - home-made, thick, tied on the end (no frog). Here is a picture of a typical bass: http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/i...=100_0258a.jpg

I think I'm the only one crazy enough to carve my own top, then slap 3 guts on and hit them with a meat-cleaver of a bow, but that's the music I love.

By the way, your photo documentation of your first bass built was a big inspiration to me.

Great looking bow, by the way!

More later.
George

**Matthew Tucker** · #14 01-20-2010, 02:15 PM

George that's a lovely album of photos. Great fun! Wish I could hear it all.

I have haired the bow, but I've had to bend it some more, and now I have to remove the scorch marks again! My bow is a more classic form, but the limitation of using a standard frog means that the wide ribbon I was after isn't really possible. I will need to play it a bit to "prove" it before adding the grip and any windings. I'll take some more pics tonight.

I'd love to see a closeup of your trad bow.

George700DL · #15 01-20-2010, 02:29 PM

That album isn't mine, it came up when I ran a search for pictures of Magyarpalatka (a village in Transylvania). You can get a sense of the music and the bowing in particular when you search for Magyarpalatka on youtube.

I don't think there are too many standards when it comes to these folk bows - I've seen quite a variety. The one I made looks a little different from most of the others. I haired with with black hair, and the ribon is VERY wide, and I'm actually thinking there is not enough hair on it

I use Pops rosin, it has a nice grab on the plain guts.

Once I get final pictures of the bass I'll also take some of the bow and post them. I guess something like photobucket or something similar.

George

LouisF · #16 01-20-2010, 03:43 PM

FYI I posted this in another thread. I remember playing one of these in a luthier's shop once. It was actually very comfortable, but I'm not sure I'd want to live with one day in and day out.

Louis

http://www.menzelviolins.com/bows/parrot/parrot.html

**Matthew Tucker** · #17 01-20-2010, 03:52 PM

how do you tension the hair on your rustic bow?

George700DL · #18 01-20-2010, 11:35 PM

The end of the hair is braided and extended with a rope/string, then tied around the "wannabe" frog. You tension it by untying and re-tying tighter

But it's usually pretty much just left alone.

I plan on making another type of a folk bow which I saw recently. It sort of looks like a german bow, but it's a bit shorter (and thicker). The frog is also more massive (thus accommodating a wider hair ribbon) and the screw is rather primitive - well actually the screw didn't work at all on the one I saw

The advantage would be: being able to hold it like a german-style bow, but have more hair and more mass - a desired feature for this type of music.

But the bass first...then the bow...

George

George700DL · #19 01-25-2010, 09:25 PM

Matthew,

I ran out of attachment quota, so the picture of my folk bow is tiny. I'll get a snapfish account or something similar.

In the mean time, this will have to do. I posted pics of the just-finished bass in the Setup & Repair section.

George

bejoyous · #20 01-27-2010, 03:53 PM

Hey George

Congrats on building a bass and bow!

From reading this thread, I noticed this documentary at the library. You've probably seen it, but if anyone hasn't, I highly recommend it. It's called When the Road Bends: Tales of a Gypsy Caravan

A variety of Roma bands from all over the world go on a 5 week tour. Great performances! Taraf de Haidouks would be playing the music that George plays.