Salt & Pepper...

[jordan oconnor]

I recently I got a new bow and it came with salt and pepper hair, which I have often thought about trying and really like, at least on this bow. I mentioned this – the salt and pepper hair - to a friend who became interested in perhaps trying it on his bow. He was getting his bow re-haired within the next few days at a local shop and asked them about salt and pepper hair. From what my friend told me, they said (I wasn't there) that basically "Salt and Pepper" or mixing the hair was bad. I got the impression that they thought this was “cheep” or “pedestrian.” I was originally introduced to salt and pepper hair in Rabbath's video and it seemed interesting to me.

I searched this site for "Salt & Pepper" and believe it or not found recipes. I was wondering, do others use salt and pepper hair, and has any heard about it being bad? That seems bizarre to me.

Thanks
Jordan

[damonsmith]

I had it before and it was really uneven. It seemed like the white hair came loose before the black or something.
I like really good jet black hair.

I just got a new Ary bow and it came with salt and pepper hair. It seems like a good idea to me-- best of both worlds, right? Of course, the new bow much higher quality than what I'm used to so I can't really compare it to anything of similar quality with all-white or all-black hair. That being said, it sounds great. I'm mainly a jazz guy and this is the first time I've been able to eliminate the scratchiness from my arco sound with my D'Addario strings.

[jazzbassnerd]

I don't find Salt and Pepper hair to be "cheap" not "pedestrian," but maybe that's just because I use it...

I think that if you like s&p, keep it. Each bass/bow/player is going to react differently to all that stuff.

[Basschair]

Keep in mind that "salt & pepper" can be used to refer to many, many different grades and types of hair. I guess those who try to accomplish the s&p by mixing black and white hair do so because they don't want to have to track down, order, and stock the other hanks of hair. There's natural blond with darker streaks, there's silver grey, silver chestnut, and others. They actually do have differing characteristics and feels.

I don't blame a music shop (even a bass shop) for offering basic blond, black, or mix, as it cuts down on the variables. I imagine most players probably don't care much about it as long as it works (at least I didn't for the first 7 years ).

Originally Posted by Basschair

Keep in mind that "salt & pepper" can be used to refer to many, many different grades and types of hair. I guess those who try to accomplish the s&p by mixing black and white hair do so because they don't want to have to track down, order, and stock the other hanks of hair. There's natural blond with darker streaks, there's silver grey, silver chestnut, and others. They actually do have differing characteristics and feels.

I don't blame a music shop (even a bass shop) for offering basic blond, black, or mix, as it cuts down on the variables. I imagine most players probably don't care much about it as long as it works (at least I didn't for the first 7 years ).

So a better quality salt and pepper will have not just plain old black and white but other types of hair in it as well?

[jordan oconnor]

I didn't realize there was such a plethora of "salt and Pepper" hair. Since stocking a wide array of hair isn't an obvious moneymaker, I was wondering about buying and keeping the hair I want, then brining it to someone to do the re-hair. Have I committed some re-hair taboo?

[Basschair]

Originally Posted by appler

So a better quality salt and pepper will have not just plain old black and white but other types of hair in it as well?

I don't know if I'd necessarily say that. The silver grey I have has blonde, silver, and black streaks in it, but it's feel not for me. It would work well for someone who likes pure black but doesn't want the complete scratchiness of it. Silver chestnut (blonde and brown, with occasional black), is smoother, but still has some scratch to it. The thing is, they are all "good quality" hair: IMO, the quality lies within the freshness of it as well as its stability. You don't want it to shrink/expand significantly after you get it...some folks actually will wet hair down to extend its length temporarily. If you put it on and it shrinks up, that could be disastrous. The hair will contract/expand normally as a result of temperature fluctuations...you should always let the rehairing person know if you live in a predominantly cold or hot climate, or if you are going to travel to one.

Originally Posted by jordan oconnor

I didn't realize there was such a plethora of "salt and Pepper" hair. Since stocking a wide array of hair isn't an obvious moneymaker, I was wondering about buying and keeping the hair I want, then brining it to someone to do the re-hair. Have I committed some re-hair taboo?

Well, I can't speak for others who do it, but I'd have no problem with it. Just make sure you store it in a large ziploc, and perhaps keep a chunk of cedar next to the bag. The main enemies of bowhair (other than extremes in temp.) are dust and mites. They're pretty nasty buggers, and will eat your hair up. They are related to the mites that museums have to deal with: they are right at home in the felt linings of bow cases.

[JimGullen]

Originally Posted by Basschair

The main enemies of bowhair (other than extremes in temp.) are dust and mites.

Sunlight will also degrade that hair....so keep the ziplock in a drawer somewhere.

Fresh hair should last in storage for somewhere between 1-2 years, You can tell if it's gotten too brittle by taking a strand and wrapping it around two fingers (think flossing your teeth)...and pull. You should feel significant "give" or stretch before the strand breaks. If it snaps right away, it's brittle and probably won't perform well on the bow. Depending on how often you rehair your bow, it might not make sense to keep much of a stash of new hair.

Like Paul, I would have no problem using hair that you brought in. The hair I (or anyone else who's doing a lot of rehairs) have might be fresher, though, since I'm going through quarter-pounds every 3-4 months.

Best regards!

Jim

[Basschair]

Originally Posted by JimGullen

Sunlight will also degrade that hair....so keep the ziplock in a drawer somewhere.

Oops...I knew I forgot something. I guess that's why my hair keeps falling apart

[jordan oconnor]

Thanks for the great advice. It seems like the thing to do would be to purchase the hair I like just prior to having the bow re-haired, which would ensure that I am getting fresh - bug-free - hair, which seems like the way to go - no offense to bugs.

Thanks

Out of curiosity, what does cedar do, in terms of preserving the hair?

[Basschair]

Originally Posted by jordan oconnor

Out of curiosity, what does cedar do, in terms of preserving the hair?

AFAIK, it's a natural bug repellant.

[toman]

What's a good place online to buy nice, fresh hair from that has a good selection? The shop I used to go to that has since gone out of business had the best hair I've ever used, a really fine silver, almost transparent hair. I still have my bows rehaired by the same luthier, just at a different shop, but the hair they have is just some rather ordinary medium white stuff. Not bad by any stretch, but the silver stuff was luxurious! Get a super tight, thin ribbon of that on a good bow and it was like the difference between a Bic and a straight rasor.

[Basschair]

Originally Posted by toman

What's a good place online to buy nice, fresh hair from that has a good selection? The shop I used to go to that has since gone out of business had the best hair I've ever used, a really fine silver, almost transparent hair. I still have my bows rehaired by the same luthier, just at a different shop, but the hair they have is just some rather ordinary medium white stuff. Not bad by any stretch, but the silver stuff was luxurious! Get a super tight, thin ribbon of that on a good bow and it was like the difference between a Bic and a straight rasor.

I've gotten good student hair from http://www.bowworks.com/, though I don't know if he sells it per hank. Lynn Hannings sells many different grades and types of hair here: http://www.lahbows.com/. I've actually gone through her entire selection and it all came fresh. Still, with any seller, I'd buy a hank, try it out, and if it's good I'd go back for a larger quantity. There are others, but so far I haven't had the need to go elsewhere.

[jfv]

I always figured 'salt and pepper' would be inferior
because it probably came from aging horses

[Basschair]

Originally Posted by jfv

I always figured 'salt and pepper' would be inferior
because it probably came from aging horses

[Tim Barber]

Originally Posted by toman

What's a good place online to buy nice, fresh hair from that has a good selection?

Best hair I've found, although I haven't tried the s&p: http://www.pioneervalleyluthier.com.

No affiliation, just a satisfied customer.

[shuffles]

Basschair, do you have more information about the different kinds of hair? I had no idea there were such subtle differences. We have access to horses and were wondering if choosing your own horse hair had any advantages. I know someone who knows someone who makes the hair pieces for bows. So, for example, if we found a silver chestnut or a blonde tail, or a black, or a good combination, which choice should we make?

thanks!

[Basschair]

Originally Posted by shuffles

Basschair, do you have more information about the different kinds of hair? I had no idea there were such subtle differences. We have access to horses and were wondering if choosing your own horse hair had any advantages. I know someone who knows someone who makes the hair pieces for bows. So, for example, if we found a silver chestnut or a blonde tail, or a black, or a good combination, which choice should we make?

thanks!

Hi Shuffles,

The differences that I listed are based on my personal experiences as well as what some resellers have mentioned. Also keep in mind that these trials were made on basses alone (not on other members of the violin family). Check out http://www.lahbows.com/ to see quite a few of the mentioned hair types. You could try emailing Lynn to ask about the different qualities of the hair types.

Although some folks may make the generalization that the darker the hair, the more coarse it is. I don't think this is an absolutely accurate generalization. Black is definitely the most coarse that I've played, but the smoothest was actually the pure chestnut.

As far as selecting the hair, I'm not certain of the full process, but there's quite a bit of sorting involved for length, strength, age, etc. The hair I use is almost always about 32" in length to begin with, which leaves plenty of room to work.

[thesneakyjesus]

I just got some cinnamon hair from a man in Alexandria who rehairs... Cohen I believe. I haven't used the bow too much, but it looks cool as heck. He says that a lot of the guys in the NSO use it, which means it's probably too good for me. And it's cheaper then all white.

Question...
What is the proper way to rosin a FRESH rehair. I went light a bit, and played a bit, then a little more. I'm trying to just go up a little at a time until it's broken in.. rosin wise. I hate pops rosin and how sticky it gets on the hair. I'm using some sweedish (purple round box) rosin now, and it seems pretty good. I got it from bob (bob's house of basses) about a year ago. Maybe I should get new?