Should I add another bow to my order?

[Blacksheep]

I currently have a german bow on order comming with my bass, but my question is that, since I have never played arco before ever, should I get both a german and french bow? It would only be 100 dollars.

[theshadow2001]

I reckon most people go with whatever their teacher uses. So I'd just stick with that for now.

[tbassist4]

If it were me, I would get both. I currently play French and am seriously considering buying a German bow to try. Some of the teachers here at my college play German, and some play French. Find which works best and sell the other one, or keep it around, as I intend to do; some people can play certain techniques better on one, and other techniques better on the other.

Either way, it's your call. It is not imperative to have two kinds of bows; most people do not, and neither will "let you down." I just like the option of having both to try mostly because I'm interested.

[damonsmith]

Both bows work great, but French grip is tougher to learn for most people, unless you have a strong reason for playing French, German is generally an easier choice.

[MingusAmongUs]

Not to take business away from anybody but if you're not sure, or considering trying both (never a bad idea), I would suggest getting a real cheap French bow from eBay to start. I got one for $25 and it's a perfectly decent bow, my main one in fact, for the time being.

If you decide you prefer the French, you can always upgrade.

As others have said, it's usually up to your teacher -- most will insist on one or the other, while you're studying with them. It's a good idea to give one style a good sporting try, several months to a year at least, before trying another. If you're new to arco altogether, either style is going to take some getting used to.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

See your teacher. Hopefully a professional Orchestra player or at least trained as such. I do not agree with the advice given here thus far from a player standpoint. As far as buying one of each I would suggest investing that money in a better grade bow than buy two cheaper ones. A bow 2x as good will help you to play better and learn quicker. The cheaper the bow, the more bad habits you will develop along the way. You can only play one Bow at a time so owing two doesn't help. Just get the best you can afford and get what the teacher tells you is best for you. Asking on a forum what food to eat or what medicine to take is for discussion only. See someone with knowledge in person before you act.

There are some basic ways to see what style bow fits you better. The technique of a German bow may allow you to pull more sound than a cheap French bow but that should not be the deciding factor. The entire Philly Orchestra is French Bow. French is the most common bow used in USA. They do not however use $100 Bows.

[Eric Swanson]

I agree with Ken Smith about the teacher and the cheap stick. What he said.

As my old teacher used to say, a good French player is better than a bad German player and a good German player is better than a bad French player...

I wonder how one can judge the experience of bow type (French or German) with an unresponsive bow. I recently took my Morizot (French - a mid-level bow, in terms of budget/quality) in for some work and was given a "loaner" to use while the work is being done.

The loaner looks virtually identical to my bow but it's like comparing chalk and cheese. I can barely do things with the cheapo that I do routinely, effortlessly, and unconsciously with my Morizot. Some things just don't work at all. I keep looking at the darn thing, trying to find something broken

All to say that judging the French bow or German bow experience might be harder to do with a throwaway stick. While we certainly all have our budgetary constraints, there may be better options than buying something that may look like a bow, but not act like one.

Do you know anyone with a better quality bow of either style? Can you borrow one or try one? Any bass-playing pals? Anybody around from whom you could get a few arco lessons and a bit of guidance?

[MingusAmongUs]

To say that you can't take advice about this from a forum, and then to proceed with giving advice is a little bit like ...fishing with golf clubs.... Go ahead and buy 2 $5000 dollar bows then. Money is just paper.


Not meant to ruffle any feathers, just being funny. I agree that this is something you can't trust the advice of strangers on, and therefore I take back my suggestion. I think most replies here have started with, "ask your teacher," and I'll restate that and leave it there.

I will add though that because a bow is inexpensive, does not necessarily make it a "throwaway" and it's not a given that you will develop bad habits using it if you didn't pay a minimum of $xxxx for it.

[Eric Swanson]

Agreed. Here's what I was trying to say, put anecdotally:

I had a cheap bow. I practiced a lot and got a sound (I had started on 'cello, so I had a chance). I saved my money, got a great teacher, and he helped me immeasurably. I went to school and saw other folks playing German, and thought that this might be the true faith...maybe I had missed the bow-style boat.

Then I was lucky enough to be given a decent bow that made all the difference. My self-doubt was gone, the sun shone through the heavens.

Of course, even the most expensive bows are idiosyncratic. It is a subjective things.

I agree that a cheap stick may not be a throwaway. What I am trying to say, oh so clumsily, is that a better tool makes work easier. A nicer tool makes playing a lot more fun for me.

[MingusAmongUs]

Thanks for the anecdote Eric... I know what you're getting at and I agree, but as someone who has simply never been able to afford any really nice tools, and most likely never will, I have had to spend my life doing the best with what I have. Granted, I can do better than the $25 ebay bow but when my $200 bow broke I had to replace it in a hurry, and it has been a much better bow, for me, than the one it replaced.

Seems I'm never in the right place at the right time; nobody has ever given me nice tools for free!

BTW I thought better of my choice of words too and have edited accordingly.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by MingusAmongUs

To say that you can't take advice about this from a forum, and then to proceed with giving advice is a little bit like ...fishing with golf clubs...

When on a strange 'Course it's always best to carry a 'Fishing' Wedge and a 'Tree' Iron..

[MingusAmongUs]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

When on a strange 'Course it's always best to carry a 'Fishing' Wedge and a 'Tree' Iron..

Advice to live and die by.

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

See your teacher. Hopefully a professional Orchestra player or at least trained as such. I do not agree with the advice given here thus far from a player standpoint. As far as buying one of each I would suggest investing that money in a better grade bow than buy two cheaper ones. A bow 2x as good will help you to play better and learn quicker. The cheaper the bow, the more bad habits you will develop along the way. You can only play one Bow at a time so owing two doesn't help. Just get the best you can afford and get what the teacher tells you is best for you. Asking on a forum what food to eat or what medicine to take is for discussion only. See someone with knowledge in person before you act.

There are some basic ways to see what style bow fits you better. The technique of a German bow may allow you to pull more sound than a cheap French bow but that should not be the deciding factor. The entire Philly Orchestra is French Bow. French is the most common bow used in USA. They do not however use $100 Bows.

I agree with you, but having learned both grips and taught for several years, I find learning the French grip takes more time and effort and can often be painful and discouraging at first, especially to those not specifically interested in classical playing.
That is the only reason I reccomend German.
Both grips work, I use both on a German bow and yes, a fine stick makes a lot of difference.
Most serious teachers can teach both grips.

[jimmyduded]

i learned the hard way that french can be painful( dislocated several fingers), but in the end I still play french, its all about relaxing, and i found with german it was too relaxed and I ended up hitting my bass with the end of the bow

[jallenbass]

Originally Posted by jimmyduded

i learned the hard way that french can be painful( dislocated several fingers), but in the end I still play french, its all about relaxing, and i found with german it was too relaxed and I ended up hitting my bass with the end of the bow

What are you trying to do? Squeeze the life out of it!

[accutone]

Originally Posted by jimmyduded

i learned the hard way that french can be painful( dislocated several fingers), but in the end I still play french, its all about relaxing, and i found with german it was too relaxed and I ended up hitting my bass with the end of the bow

You dislocated your fingers playing arco?

[jimmyduded]

yes, quite painful, and its from playing wrong, i was playing at an angle that put stress on my fingers to an extreme ammount

[accutone]

Wow, not a good thing and that must have hurt like heck. But, at least your young and so can recover relatively quickly.

[jimmyduded]

yeah haha, i need to get a more balanced bow, but need to get enough money for a good one first, i have one like this guy is going to get, looks nice, but feels horrible

[Silversorcerer]

There is a great deal of merit is most of the posts here;- no one will have exactly the same opinions and experiences, so rather than critique the other posts I'll just add my own spin.

I've had two very different teachers, one a middle school orchestra director who specializes in double bass, another that is the former head of the Vanderbilt music department as well as a retired principal bassist of the Savannah Symphony. He also held that position in a few other major east coast symphony orchestras. Both of those teachers advised me to learn with a German bow first.

If you are a total klutz like me and tend to drop and damage your bow once in a while, two of the same kind might be better than two different ones. Even if these are two not so good German bows, you want the spare to be a familiar tool. I do think there is some merit in avoiding investing too much in beginner bows, but your loss is probably minimal if you sell these when you upgrade. A beginner bow is a beginner bow. "Used" just means it needs a re-hair if it hasn't been damaged. And a used beginner bow is not going to lose a lot of value between a second and third owner.

There is nothing wrong with trying both types early on, but they will probably both seem a bit daunting at first, and without any technique, I think it might be hard to recognize what is a somewhat better bow. In other words, you might not know what you are paying for until you have used a cheap bow for a while (perhaps a year) and developed some technique at least. See if you can find a used French bow of medium quality to try. You can always sell it if you don't like it. If you can find one to try before you buy, that would be the best bet. Look at the classifieds here and on Bob Gollihur's page.