Switch from French to German Bow

[Dimoff]

Originally Posted by lowendgruv

Mr. Dimoff,
I hear you mentioned my previous post in class this week. I really hope I didn't offend you. Kevin had to illuminate me concerning the fact that your grip is actually part of a whole school of french grip that I had never seen before. (At least that's how I understood it...please tell me if I'm wong).

Thanks for understanding and I look forward to meeting with you my first chance to visit the campus during the academic year.

And to clarify...I studied with Kevin several summers ago and am the one who asked about the Ulysses S. Grant Head on your bass at Blossom.

Don't worry, I am not offended. Actually I was quite amused. I used to have a very classic French bow grip. Over the years it has changed to what I have now. I drop my hand on to the stick, but I keep the flexibility in the fingers and all joints. I don't know about a school of thought on the subject, but I can say that I was influenced by Michael Morgan (former principal of the Met). His grip looked similar to what mine is now. It worked great for him. Technique is just a means to an end (music). Technique for its own sake means nothing. Although, sound fundamentals make the job much easier.

I remember the question about my scroll. The carving is actually Ulysses and not the former U.S. president. I did, by the way, join to reply to your post. I am looking forward to meeting you in the near future.

Max

[darkocuk]

Originally Posted by kpo

Huh?!?!?
I find that being able to play both helps you solve problems. Can't do something in your bow technique? Try the other bow type for a few minutes. The way you use the arm and hand is SOOO different for each that your problem will either be exaggerated of fixed when you switch bows for a moment, so the problem will be highlighted when you pick up your preferred bow.o

Same here. Played French first for years, then switched to German cuz I could just pick it up and be functional.. but after a while found it was difficult to do fine articulation with it but great in a section playing... so I longed to get back on the French. This I did just recently and been working to eliminate the right hand fatigue and pain by trying to relax the hand as much as possible. I gotta say my issue is improving but the pain isn't really gone.. its such a Zen thing which requires soo much of my 'tuning in' to get it right.. wil this ever be resolved? So, currently, to try and get that painless hold on the French bow, I switch to German for a few minutes at a time, then back to French when the pain has gone.
Does anyone have an idea how long before my mind-body gets it and I don't have any pain anymore? I mean, can any one of the French bow players shed some insight into how long before one can bow for hours and not feel the kind of fatigue which impedes your playing? I would be grateful for this info.
D

[Thumpie]

I started on German and switched to French because I'm a shorter person, and I got tired of stretching to get the bow closer to the bridge. (Notice that when you tilt your relaxed arm into the German position the turn slightly shortens your reach.)

I was taking lessons with a classical player and we compared my sound using her German bow against the French one I've been using for 3 or 4 years. She said I sound better with the German!

I sometimes think about going back to German, but I think I'm going to stick with French because I don't like the change in stance I have to make when I'm bowing on the E string.

[Dralcoffin]

When I first started out a year ago, the rental bass came with a French bow, so that's what I used. But my hands are good-sized, and the French grip always felt tight to me. My instructor at the time used German, so I asked if we could swap bows for a lesson. We did, and the German hold felt much more open and comfortable on my hand, although my wrist had to get used to being flipped "upside-down." I still use German, and while I do sort of miss the finesse of the French bow, the German hold just feels much more comfortable.

[abaguer]

Started on French bow but had hand pain. A couple years later my new teacher switched me to German. Never felt any pain and have been using it since.

[ouijabird]

Im quite new to the double bass and have been playing french bow as that is what my bass came with. I find i get a lot of hand pain when playing. I have been holding the french bow german style as an experiment and i dont seem to get any pain but i find it really awkward to bow the low E, is my stance wrong or do i need to adjust it for German bowing?

[Andrew McGregor]

It is a little more awkward to get to the E, and you do need to use a different stance. Just adjust, rotate the bass a bit to the left. Bonus of that is, it's easier to reach thumb position.

I switched because of hand pain, the hand specialist looked at my bow hold for a while and ended up saying something that amounted to "Your hand geometry doesn't work for this, and if you keep at it you're going to have arthritis in your thumb". I showed him German hold and he said "That'll be fine. Do that." So I did, and it works... but, 25 years later I do have the arthritis in the thumb anyway.

My view is this: the two bows can both do anything you need to do with a bass bow. Different challenges with each, but all the techniques are doable in the end. Either can be bad for your hand depending on what shape hands you have, and you should pick one that doesn't hurt. If you're lucky and can use either, go for the best teaching you can get, but DO NOT put up with pain, no matter what anyone tells you.