Tight hair/ loose hair

rprowse · #1 08-15-2006, 06:08 PM

I have been experimenting with having my bow hair fairly loose (within reason) when I play. I play German.
I would be interested in any thoughts.
Richard

Dr Rod · #2 08-15-2006, 06:29 PM

Loose hair gives better a grab. I can't stand tight hair.

damonsmith · #3 08-15-2006, 06:53 PM

As loose as possible without the stick hitting the strings is standard.

rprowse · #4 08-15-2006, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

As loose as possible without the stick hitting the strings is standard.

Thanks guys. I have been thinking along these lines for a while, but sometimes have a tendency to make the mistake of using too much downward pressure when I require more volume (I know, this is madness!). As Gary says, "A slow bow close to the bridge".
Richard

Silversorcerer · #5 09-14-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

As loose as possible without the stick hitting the strings is standard.

+1

My first teacher had me cranking it up too much. My cheapo fiberglass bow with plastic frog finally gave way at the frog. My current teacher recommends that the tension should be such that (while holding the bow and instrument in playing position) you should just barely be able to press the hair all the way to the stick. I've found that tension to give me much more ease and greater response in playing arco and I can still dig in a bit and have a decent bounce for spicatto.

GriffithLea · #6 09-14-2006, 04:12 PM

When I used to teach lessons generally to middle school kids just learning to play bass, as often as not when they'd show up for the first lesson the bow would already be tight when they took it out of the bag, and sometimes so tight that the stick was bent a little bit the wrong way. Yikes!

damonsmith said it best: As loose as possible without the stick hitting the strings is standard.

toman · #7 09-14-2006, 05:28 PM

I like my hair a bit tighter than most. I use the Streicher technique, and when I get a rehair, I always go to the same guy who gives me a really tight, flat ribbon of hair, and the hair he gets is a rather fine, white hair that's different from most I've seen. This, combined with a little extra tension, I feel gives me the ability to start the string more quickly, and feels a little more nimble in the Streicher-esque lateral movement. With less tension, it feels to me like the lateral movement is sort of wasted, and to be effective has to be exagerated

GriffithLea · #8 09-15-2006, 08:10 AM

I hear you on the flat ribbon characteristic. To me, the strands should all be as close to the same tension as possible. I need to bring this up with my guy at the next rehair, since right now the hairs aren't in as flat a ribbon as I'd like.

toman · #9 09-15-2006, 11:40 AM

Yeah! It seems like a lot of guys are perfectly happy to give you a rehair with a big 'ole sloppy bunch of hair hanging everywhere. When you tighten it up, everything's at different tensions, and it's just a big mess. I HATE that!

I don't know what the deal is; I've gotten that kind of rehair even from luthiers who are supposed to be the best, old dudes who have been doing it for decades. hmmmmm.

Eric Rene Roy · #10 09-19-2006, 07:50 PM

It's tough to get a flat ribbon with even hair tension. Truth be told...I hate rehairing (Gary's gonna kill me for saying that publicly!). It's one of the hardest things I do. I save all my rehairs for Saturday's and just do them in one fell swoop. Bending the hair and holding it in place while you tie the knot in exactly the right spot so that the hair is almost unplayable with the frog in the most forward position...and getting that nice flat even ribbon...jeeze...I am glad I was taught by one of the best in the business...otherwise I am sure I would not be doing it at all. Hey, anyone with good rehair and/or bow making experince please send a resume to us!

Jake · #11 09-19-2006, 11:36 PM

The best rehair I have ever had was by Jim Hamm when he came to Texas a while back. He didn't use that much hair, but it was totally even and it played great.

GriffithLea · #12 09-20-2006, 07:40 AM

When I was in Austin (TX), there was a gent whose name I think was Olaf Riewe who did my rehairs, and he also one time bushed the shaft on my bow, which has really aided the smoothness of the tightening/loosening action ever since. Real nice fellow.

Bob Branstetter · #13 09-20-2006, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eroy

It's tough to get a flat ribbon with even hair tension. Truth be told...I hate rehairing (Gary's gonna kill me for saying that publicly!). It's one of the hardest things I do. I save all my rehairs for Saturday's and just do them in one fell swoop.

I've been rehairing bows for over 40 years and I don't know ANYONE who enjoys rehairing bows. You would have to be a masochist to enjoy it. The process of tying the hair ends has removed the calousus on my first finger more times than I want to remember.

I'm like Eric, I put them off until I absolutely have to get them done and then do them all at once.

Marcus Johnson · #14 09-20-2006, 10:26 AM

I'm fortunate to have the services of a luthier who actually enjoys the rehairing process, because she does a beautiful job (I'm sure you guys do, too.. she just seems to dig the process). Flat ribbon, indeed. She just did a rehair, recamber, and some general fixing up on my bow, and since she was at a clinic intended to sharpen her own skills, she needed to bring some bows along, so she did the work free! Hard to beat that deal.

Bob Branstetter · #15 09-20-2006, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

she just seems to dig the process

Very strange

toman · #16 09-20-2006, 01:06 PM

I had no idea; maybe this is why my guy always seems a little grumpy when he sees me in the shop.

I always figured it was just because he hated working on bass bows, since he mainly makes violins.

Johnny L · #17 09-20-2006, 04:00 PM

I go tight more often than not, but when I'm doing the spiccato thing I like to loosen the hair up for better grip.

But I experiment all the time anyway...looser or tighter, faster or slower, lighter or heavier, higher or lower, more rosin less rosin, hard rosin soft rosin etc etc

moopants · #18 10-21-2006, 07:56 PM

My teacher uses a really tight bow. I've just gotten used to have it tight. When I play with it loose, I don't think it sounds as good. I also think it's harder to play it loose. It might just be me.

Joe Ergle · #19 10-26-2006, 09:22 PM

See... I prefer to play with loose hairs, but the bow I'm using (school property) is haired so haggardly that if it's anything less than way too tight, I have hairs dangling all over the place. It's a mess. I would buy a bow of my own, but I'm trying to get into college and don't exactly have money floating around. Does anyone have any suggestions? Should I keep playing tight? Pluck out some hairs? Help me out!

toman · #20 10-26-2006, 09:25 PM

Just get a rehair. Ask around, see who in your area does good ones, and take the bow there. Last rehair I had done cost me $70, but I've paid both more and less. Most shops, if you're nice, probably have an el-crappo bow you can borrow while yours is getting rehaired, too.