What are the advantages and disadvantages for...

[Blazemourne]

the french bow and the german bow?

[JimGullen]

Greetings!

Some people believe that you get more "power" from a German bow and some believe that you get "better" or "faster" articulation from a French bow.

There are lots of examples that show this distinction to be NOT true....there are players at the very highest levels that use each.

Many times the choice of bow comes down to your teacher. They may recommend one over the other because that's the one they use and are most comfortable with. I think school teachers (who aren't bass players themselves) tend to have their bass students play French because it's closer to the other instruments.

I have played (and studied on) both (started French and moved to German). I find that I prefer German because _I_ have more flexibility in MY wrist with that grip. (I'm not generalizing to anyone else). For me, I think the German grip is more efficient for me from a biomechanical standpoint.

Best regards!

Jim

After studying both the French bow and the German bow with very good teachers, I've found that there are no advantages to playing the French bow over German. With the German bow you have the ability to completely relax your arm and more efficiently transfer weight into the bow. With the French bow, you will always need some sort of support from the thumb, otherwise the bow will fall. With the German bow, you only need to cradle the frog with your hand. This is the reason that most people who end up injuring their bow hand switch to German. With the French bow, the entire arm needs to be involved in transferring weight, but with the German bow you really only need to involve the lower portion of your arm and have the top part relaxed.

This more efficient means of transferring weight is why the German bow is so much easier at doing a multitude of things: playing at the tip, playing very quietly and very loudly, and playing off the string. With the German bow you can make even bad bows bounce with ease, unlike French bows which really do require a good balanced bow to play off the string with.

This is not to say that French bow players cannot play as well as German players, because they obviously can. The German bow however is just easier.

[toman]

I don't feel there is an advantage to either, but that they're just different. I think if anything you're more likely to suffer an injury playing French, either from improper technique or over-use, but obviously plenty of people don't experience that. I personally like German for orchestra playing, but if I were to focus on solo work, I might switch to French. I don't think being able to play both is a bad idea at all, since they both offer different things to different types of music.

[PaulCannon]

If anyone tries to tell you that one kind of bow is better or easier than the other, it means they have no idea what they're talking about. Each presents unique challenges, and each has its own strengths. French bow can be just as comfortable or "easy" as German, if you know how to hold it properly. If you have a short arm, I would imagine German could actually be harder to play.

It is possible that your body may be better suited for one type of bow over another. It may be best to try both and see what seems more comfortable.

Originally Posted by PaulCannon

If anyone tries to tell you that one kind of bow is better or easier than the other, it means they have no idea what they're talking about. Each presents unique challenges, and each has its own strengths. French bow can be just as comfortable or "easy" as German, if you know how to hold it properly. If you have a short arm, I would imagine German could actually be harder to play.

It is possible that your body may be better suited for one type of bow over another. It may be best to try both and see what seems more comfortable.

I've had many well respected teachers tell me that German bow is easier. Think whatever you want about me, but they know what they're talking about, otherwise they wouldn't have the teaching positions they have. The endpin can be raised to compensate for the small difference in arm length needed for the two bows. It's not a big issue. I would like to know what you think the advantages of the French bow are.

[jallenbass]

Originally Posted by p.nemeth

I've had many well respected teachers tell me that German bow is easier. Think whatever you want about me, but they know what they're talking about, otherwise they wouldn't have the teaching positions they have. The endpin can be raised to compensate for the small difference in arm length needed for the two bows. It's not a big issue. I would like to know what you think the advantages of the French bow are.

If you are self taught or taught by someone who doesn't know how to teach beginners then I agree that German is easier. If you are taught properly by a teacher who understands the fundamentals of bowing then neither has the advantage. I have been in both places.

[PaulCannon]

Originally Posted by p.nemeth

I've had many well respected teachers tell me that German bow is easier. Think whatever you want about me, but they know what they're talking about, otherwise they wouldn't have the teaching positions they have.

And it is equally true that there are many well-respected teachers (Rabbath being the first to come to mind) who would argue that French bow is easier or better or whatever. Let them have a tug-of-war and see who wins.

There are certain strokes and styles that are simply easier on a French bow. By the same token, there are other strokes that make more sense with a German bow. With proper technique, it doesn't matter.

If you ask me, when a teacher claims that their bow is what you should be playing, it's because they have no idea how to teach the other way to you. The honest teachers will tell you that up front.

[sibass89]

It comes down to player preference. Some players tend to be able to play faster, with better articulation, and more power with french bow. Some take better to German bow. After several years of french bow study, I found German to be better for me.

Mr. Levinson said it best - The bow is nothing more than an extension of the arm, a tool for playing. How you use is it is up to you. Levinson believes in German, Rabbath believes in French, as does Hal Robinson.

Search for what bow fits you better. Our own Kurt Muroki is a french bow player with one of the largest and most articulated sounds I've ever heard. David Grossman is another example of a huge sound and great articulation but plays German.

It lies completely on the player. I find with German you get results quicker than you do with French but everybody is different.

Originally Posted by PaulCannon

And it is equally true that there are many well-respected teachers (Rabbath being the first to come to mind) who would argue that French bow is easier or better or whatever. Let them have a tug-of-war and see who wins.

There are certain strokes and styles that are simply easier on a French bow. By the same token, there are other strokes that make more sense with a German bow. With proper technique, it doesn't matter.

If you ask me, when a teacher claims that their bow is what you should be playing, it's because they have no idea how to teach the other way to you. The honest teachers will tell you that up front.

Of course with proper technique it doesn't matter. However I was talking about the intial difference between the bows, not with training or whatever. There are initial advantages to the German bow that are not there with the French bow. This is simply because of the way it's held and the angle at which your hand is placed. If you ever study the German bow, you'll know what I'm talking about. I sort of feel like you need to have experienced both bows for a long time before you can understand this well. Ask your teacher about the two holds in regard to how the arm is used and the angle at which the bow is in contact with the string.

I didn't say anything about teachers making students switch. I've had French bow teachers tell me that German bow is easier (!), but not any teachers that have told me that I should switch to it. I did this on my own. Of course my teacher is very happy that I switched, but she would not have cared if I stayed with the French bow.

[Silversorcerer]

I tend to agree with Paul Cannon's initial post in the broad brush of comparison.

A little while back Ray Parker, who teaches, pointed out that there is some correlation between preference and the physical structure of the arm of the player. Specifically he noted that how the hand hangs when the arm is totally relaxed can indicate which bow will be generally more "natural" to the player. Persons whose palms tend to face more backward than forward felt more comfortable with French bows and those whose palms turned forward slightly felt more comfortable with German style bows.

Personally, my arm and preference agree with Ray's observations and I prefer the German bow mostly. However, I have recently begun to experiment with using a French hold on my German bow while playing in thumb position and this seems to have some advantages, but I have just started trying it so I think more experimentation is necessary as well as obtaining a proper French bow to experiment with. The French hold does seem to give my right arm a little more extension and my impression is that articulation is a little earsier up in TP with the French hold. That said, my hand experiences stress that never happens with the German hold. In fact, I could say that the German hold is more like letting the bow just rest in your cradling fingers than it is holding onto the bow. The French bow hold is a true hold;- otherwise you will drop it. With the German bow hold a relaxed wrist and thrust and pull from an almost swinging motion of the hand is possible and I haven't been able to get a similar motion with a French hold.

I've had two bow instructors, one very young who taught me the German method right off, and one older and much more experienced (George Hofer) who recommended I start with German and then learn French also afterwards. George was the last principal DBassist of the Savannah Symphony and is also a former chairman of the string department of Vanderbilt U. He is arguably the top music educator in Georgia and has taught all levels of students. His observation was that most students found German easier at first, but that a truly serious student should at least try both. He felt that certain music was better played with one over the other.

[GriffithLea]

Originally Posted by p.nemeth

I've had many well respected teachers tell me that German bow is easier. Think whatever you want about me, but they know what they're talking about, otherwise they wouldn't have the teaching positions they have. The endpin can be raised to compensate for the small difference in arm length needed for the two bows. It's not a big issue. I would like to know what you think the advantages of the French bow are.

Speaking only for myself, I find that the the French bow gives me far more control over the pressure of the hair against the string, particularly out toward the tip. I have tried the German bow a few times, and while it appeals to me in certain ways (e.g. tremolo is vastly easier), I've never quite gotten used to it.

I intend to buy a German bow sometime soon, because I do feel compelled to master it. It would be nice to be able to use both with more or less equal facility. I could then be welcome in both crowds (sadly, I have seen bias against players of one type by players of the other on more than one occasion).

[SRX705NT]

i just started playing bass in the 8th grade and im in 9th now and i started with a german and i have played with a french before and i find that the german is much better for me but i dont know for other people

[joel kelsey]

Hello,
I have a little bit of experience playing German bows (5 years at Indiana University, jazz studies degree under Bruce Bransby) and I always liked them, even if they didn't like me. However, I have always been somewhat uncomfortable playing arco, especially on the G string. Always had trouble reaching the strings and keeping the bow straight. Recently, at our first lesson, my new teacher pointed out that I have short arms and might be more comfortable with a French bow. He was right (curse my short arms)!!! While I had trouble holding the French bow, it was much easier to get across the strings. When I get some money I am going to switch to French.

In answer to original question about wich is better, French bow seems to be easier than German for us with short arms. As for other advantages, I have no idea.

[rprowse]

I switched to German about 2 years ago because of an injury.
I had no choice as the French bow was really hurting my hand. My brother had made the switch quite a few years earlier and was a real fan of the German, so I was really quite enthused by the change.
I feel that I overcame the basic problems that the German may present (eg. bowing the E string) because I had no choice.
I love playing German and I guess I'm just happy to have beaten the injury. I think both bows have their advantages... and different tones.
I also believe that it gives my bass more volume, which is good for my solo playing.
Richard

[robobass]

Lots of good comments. I play french in a section of Germans playing german grip in a German orchestra. They don't like it, but they like my german bow technique even less. I learned french grip, and think I do it well. I just can't get the hang of german grip, partly because I haven't been able practice with a superior bow.

In the end, I prefer french grip because that is how I was trained. But, to me it is nicer because it matches the rest of the string section better, and it is just plain prettier.

robobass