*Live Mix / Monitoring Question

Jaingra8 · #1 09-20-2011, 10:01 AM

Hey fellow TBErs,

I recently was playing a gig where we were sharing a backline between three bands and all of us soundchecked prior to the performance.

When we got on for our set, I turned the gain up a bit on the head as I still wasn't happy w/ the mix, but as a result the FOH Engineer took the signal out of the house or down in the mix during our set.

I was unaware of this, and as a result of this, the bass was too low in the mix for the first 2 songs of the band after me, and their bassist, understandably, was annoyed, given he'd already soundchecked.

In retrospect, I presume the right thing to do in that situation would have been to just ask the FOH for more bass in my monitor (we did not have In-ears), but even when it is my own equipment that I am playing on I hate being dependent on the sound engineer since it is totally hit-or miss depending on the venue (this venue happened to have great sound staff), and I'd never been in a situation where we were all sharing a rig (it's not my preference). That said, it's all about being able to be versatile and adapt, so I'm curious what people's opinions are on this.

Also wondering whether the better move would have been to have just turned the pre-gain up on my bass itself if I wanted more sound. That way, at least if the FOH engineer had saved mix settings for each group, the mix issue wouldn't have been a problem for the next band since the settings on the physical rig would have stayed the same.

Or should I still just have asked for more sound in the Monitor mix instead...

AfroCubanFunkMa · #2 09-20-2011, 10:06 AM

Maybe leave the gain alone next time and only turn up the master volume for your amp and that only sparingly. That way you won't be frying the FOH's gear like turning up the gain would..

Jaingra8 · #3 09-20-2011, 10:18 AM

Hmmm.. Point of additional clarification:

I was running into a DI box, which was then running into the Bass Head. The Bass head had no DI running out of it. The cabinet was also miced as well.

Therefore, if I turned up the cab (gain, or master, regardless), it would have only affected the mic signal, no?

**Sparks55** · #4 09-20-2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaingra8

Hmmm.. Point of additional clarification:

I was running into a DI box, which was then running into the Bass Head. The Bass head had no DI running out of it. The cabinet was also miced as well.

Therefore, if I turned up the cab (gain, or master, regardless), it would have only affected the mic signal, no?

Yup, it would only have affected the mic'd channel. It's great that you had a mic and a DI signal. Having spent most of the last 30 years providing sound for shows, I can say that the fact you turned up doesn't make it your fault. Whomever was running the console should have adjusted each band on the fly as soon as he/she got the new band's vocals straight. It could just be a case where the soundman didn't think there needed to be more bass out front or he/she didn't care. Unfortunately, the latter is more common these days.....

Mark

Wes Whitmore · #5 09-20-2011, 12:18 PM

If the second bassist was playing just as loud as you were on that shared rig, it wasn't your fault. If he listened to you during your set and said "hey, that guy is so loud on stage that he isn't in the PA anymore, so make sure to turn down so the sound man will listen and put be back in the PA

"...or something like that.

His failure wasn't your fault. The soundman should always be listening, especially when there is a band changeover. Something is going to be missed, and bass is last in the list of importance usually. At least he got back in the mix after a song or two. That sounds like the soundman was probably getting the kick and vocals set properly first...

Wes

Jaingra8 · #6 09-20-2011, 12:56 PM

guys - thanks so much for chiming in on this.

Sparks - yeah, i mean my biggest question is in that situation, what are you supposed to do if you want a bit more volume, you know? what's the solution. appreciate that's been your experience running sound, as I didn't think it was that big a deal either, but def still a pain for the 2nd bass player if they need to adjust anyways.

the soundman did adjust it on the fly and it was only quiet for the first 2 songs or so for the next guy, but admittedly it should have been "in-mix" given the adjustments during my set. as far as I know, the guy after me turned it back down on the cab when he got on, and as a result of also then being turned down in the house, it was too low. but I'm curious how that would make sense if there was a DI coming before the signal went into the amp itself. It would have only been the Miced signal that woudl have been affected.

I'm curious how much it was actually taken completely out of the house as I'm pretty I sure I didn't crank it enough, but my memory could be off. and yeah, think they were probs focused on kick and vocals first, which makes total sense.

Wes Whitmore · #7 09-20-2011, 01:01 PM

It sounds like when your cab got loud, the FOH pulled both the mic and the DI sliders, and didn't put them back up until well into the second bands set. He should have been quicker...

stingraysvt · #8 09-20-2011, 01:05 PM

I've turned down signals in he house before and the volume never changed, guitar and bass being the two biggest offenders. I'll typically ask them to turn down or turn their rig away from me. It's funny how often guitards and bass players point their rig right at the FOH position. Turning it a few degrees off-axis can reduce the FOH's perception of your actual stage volume..

Works for me