Active versus passive speakers

[Medford Bassman]

Hello, currently my band used active speakers only for vocals. They sit on top of a pair of 2-15" with horn cabinets. Below that we use 4 subs. Needless to say, we certainly have plenty of power. Currently am using 2 poweramp in a rack (1 for 2-15 cabs, and 1 for the subs)

Carrying the 2-15 cabs and the 50' 10 gauge speaker cable is a real pain. I am considering selling those cabs and poweramp and purchasing a high end pair of active 15" speakers.
Here is a breakdown of our setup.

Active Mackie 12" speakers (350 watt each)- vocals only

Yamaha 2-15 cabs with 1000 watt a side poweramp (all instruments)

4 EV subs with poweramp (low end, kick and bass)

Needless to say, for the type of gigs we do, we never push any of the equipment hard. So I doubt loosing a 1000 watt power a side for instruments will make much difference. My concern is basically going from 4- 15" speakers for instruments down to 2.

Just looking for opinions and ideas. Thanks everyone.

[D.A.R.K.]

Just curious as to why you wouldn't sell the 12" vocal cabs too, get a pair of qsc k series 12's per side, and do a full mix? The luxury of vocal only cabs for clarity is cool, but probably way beyond necessary.
The k 12's with subs would crush.

[stflbn]

I'm assuming you mean "powered" or "self powered" speaker cabs???

[rockstarbassist]

My last cover band used the JBL Crown-powered stuff. 215+horn on top of the 18" sub on either side of the stage. We used a dbx DriveRack as well. Killer, loud, easy and effective. If I ever get anotehr PA, I'll be going powered.

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by stflbn

I'm assuming you mean "powered" or "self powered" speaker cabs???

That's what I'm assuming too, and I would only say that if anyone buys powered cabs assuming they'll "save weight", they're really not. You pay for your power either way, the only difference being with powered speakers you're spreading the weight of the power amps around vs. concentrating them into one or two beastly heavy racks.

The bigger benefits of powered cabs are:

1) Reduces cabling (which in itself can add up to some weight)

2) Faster setup (again, less cables to run)

3) Less pieces to tote (no power amp racks)

4) No chance of blowing up your cabinet by mismatching it with your power amp(s) or some error made connecting the two.

I'm old school so I still love nothing better than playing through a whole lot of big heavy cabinets powered by racks of power amps. But I'm also a pragmatist (and getting older), so on the gigs where I'm humping my band's own P.A. vs. hiring someone else for production, my position on that changes dramatically.

[Medford Bassman]

When I say active, I do mean powered speakers. I agree, it's more about the dispersion of the weight instead of lugging giant cabinets everywhere.

Plus, I really do enjoy simply running a line level signal to the powered Mackies instead of the current 10 gauge speaker cable I use for the unpowered cabinets.

I have noticed as well the built in amps are already configured to the speakers, as opposed to the power amp/unpowered speakers. They do take more time to tweak and match.

If I had my way and $$ I'd throw in a set of powered subs as well, but I will have to keep at least one power amp in the rack for the subs.

[Medford Bassman]

Originally Posted by D.A.R.K.

Just curious as to why you wouldn't sell the 12" vocal cabs too, get a pair of qsc k series 12's per side, and do a full mix? The luxury of vocal only cabs for clarity is cool, but probably way beyond necessary.
The k 12's with subs would crush.

You make a good point. I may consider that but we get incredible compliments about the clarity of the vocals. In my area, muddiness/unclear vocals is one of the biggest complaints we hear from our customers who have hired other bands in the past.

[Never_grew_up]

There are some downsides to powered speakers though. If for some reason the power amp section dies, you lose sound to that speaker. There's no way to re-patch. We had the crown amp that runs our mains go thermal when the fan burned out. We re-patched to run mains off 1 side of our monitor amp and ran 1 monitor mix off the other side.
The Mackie SRM's can go thermal in some cases when used as floor monitors.
Powered speakers are also heavier, so be careful putting them on tripod stands.

[WayneP]

Another downside to active cabinets is that the tendency is to plug them into the closest electrical outlet. This can easily lead to ground loops if the outlets are on different circuits, and especially if they're on different service boxes.

Originally Posted by jaywa

The bigger benefits of powered cabs are:

1) Reduces cabling (which in itself can add up to some weight)

2) Faster setup (again, less cables to run)

How do you figure that? Signal cable + power cable = twice as many cables to run compared to a single speaker cable. WRT to weight-savings, in order to insure that the speaker performs to is maximum potential it needs to get maximum line voltage and current. This means you should be using at least 14-ga. or (preferably) 12-ga. extension cords. If you’re doing it right, the speaker power cables should be run back to the same outlet or circuit as the FOH equipment. Well, a 50-ft. 12-ga. extension cord is going to weigh as much as a 50-ft. 12-ga. speaker cable...

Originally Posted by Medford Bassman

Plus, I really do enjoy simply running a line level signal to the powered Mackies instead of the current 10 gauge speaker cable I use for the unpowered cabinets.

10-ga.speaker wire is really overkill for a 50-ft. run, especially if you aren’t running the cabinets full-range. 12 or even 14-ga. is all you need. Also you could split up your amp rack into two and locate them near the speakers. That would allow you to use short speaker cables.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt



Administrator, Tobias Club
Administrator, Pedulla Club #45
Big Cabs Club #23
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly

[MNAirHead]

with active, it's more flexible and ohms law is more of a trival math equation.

I've played a 300 seat wedding with 2 1000 watt active mains/2 bass subs.

1/2 volume.

[Medford Bassman]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

with active, it's more flexible and ohms law is more of a trival math equation.

I've played a 300 seat wedding with 2 1000 watt active mains/2 bass subs.

1/2 volume.

I have noticed that with our active speakers as well.

[D.A.R.K.]

Wayne has some good points, you definitely can't get away from lugging cable.
But thinking about processing and cables- with a fully active matched rig, there is no crossover necessary.
This does away with a 1-2 rack space unit, and all the necessary patch cables that go along with it.
In a 3 way stereo modular rig, you have 6 patch cables from processor to amps, as well as the processor itself.
An active rig just needs a stereo feed from the foh, and jumpers to subs.
Another huge upside is phase/ time alignment and phase between components. This can make a huge difference in overall clarity and even response. An active rig comes dialed in.
As far as power, i've been running across the qsc powered cabs more and more on the road in smaller venues (200-500)
for mains as well as monitors, and I must admit i'm quite shocked at how loud and clean these systems are.
More than adequate, and i'm pretty die hard old-school when it comes to raw power.

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by Medford Bassman

Needless to say, for the type of gigs we do, we never push any of the equipment hard. So I doubt loosing a 1000 watt power a side for instruments will make much difference. My concern is basically going from 4- 15" speakers for instruments down to 2.

I suggest you run one 2x15 cab (of the ones you already own) on each side at your next gig as a test. See how it works out as far as your FOH sound goes.

Maybe you can get by with only 2 subs. I'd try running 2 subs and try stacking them as a test. Here is a link to a thread that explains sub placement. Sub stage placement w plots/graphs

If it sounds good with only one 2x15 per side and with only 2 subs, maybe you won't have to buy anything. Or you can sell the stuff you don't end up using. Since you're not pushing the equipment, you may be able to downsize more than you planned.

Let us know how it works out.

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by WayneP

Also you could split up your amp rack into two and locate them near the speakers. That would allow you to use short speaker cales.

That's what my band does. Although even then, the cable runs get kind of long sometimes and three Crown 2400w power amps per rack is still two heavy racks.

[TimmyP]

Yorkville Sound: Unity™ One of the best sounding boxes around. Put a nice sub under there, and off you go.

There's also a 2x15 version, but the mids and highs are in the middle, so owing to the weight, it's hard to get them up where they need to be (and they still need subs).