Adding to the PA System

[DRafalske]

Hey guys.
I play in a piece classic rock / country cover band and we're finding the PA system is needing a little more oomph for some of the places we're starting to play.

Here's our current setup:
Mackie CFX16II mixer.
2X QSC K10's as mains
1X Yamaha DSR118 sub
3X Peavey 115M monitors driven by a QSC GX7

We seem to be pushing the K10s and Yamaha sub a little too hard to get the volume we need.
We definitely plan to add a 2nd sub. My main question is about the mains. We'd like to keep what we have and add to it, rather than replace pieces. Simply add 2 more K10's? Or should we replace them in favor of larger drivers?

Thanks TB!

D

[john m]

IMO

If it's volume you're looking for, add 2 more QSC t 10's if you like the sound of them.

Do 2 work for you for smaller gigs? If not, get 2 of the 12" versions with the idea of eventually getting 2 more.

The 10's can be sold, or used for your practice pa, or monitors.

[tuBass]

I like 12's as mains for most medium sized venues. Personally I don't think its a no brainer that you need another sub, especialy if the bass sound is coming from your amp at all

Gigging with k10's? Sell them to somebody doing a lecture series, or an acoustic guitar coffee house gig. Too small to do rock with

[lowfreq33]

If you want to keep it simple I'd add two more K10's and an identical sub, and run the crossover a little high, say 150 Hz?

[DRafalske]

The K10's sound fantastic and yes, 2 (and even the single sub) are fine for smaller gigs. We just need more volume.
I hadn't thought of using them as monitors. That would save some space - those Peaveys are huge!

[lowfreq33]

Also, a bit of compression on the main mix will help you squeeze quite a bit more power out of what you have. Taming those peaks will get you a higher average level without distortion.

[DRafalske]

Yes, forgot to mention I am adding a compressor on the main mix. We're not using an external crossover though, just the ones built in. They're all 100hz.

[john m]

Originally Posted by DRafalske

Yes, forgot to mention I am adding a compressor on the main mix. We're not using an external crossover though, just the ones built in. They're all 100hz.

They are helpful for adding a sub to a system.

The problem is that most do not limit the lows to the high end component of the system. This is important when trying to squeeze more volume (and clarity) from a system.

And yes, QUALITY 10" speakers can rock if they are used correctly.

[DWBass]

As mentioned above, add 2 more K10's or K12's and another sub and you should be fine for most indoor events.

[bassplayerbob]

I just bought a pair if those subs from a friend the other day. Lotsa punch! Go grab another.

[4Mal]

Not sure about adding another set of K10's. You might want to head over to the QSC forum and ask that. K12's will punch a little harder. There is a little more acoustic output AND the dispersion is 75 degrees rather than 90 for the K10's. So that acoustic energy is focused in a smaller area.

I own K10's and have mixed on K12's. They both sound great. I picked the 10's for the wider dispersion which works for the gig's I do, venues I play. I'd love to add a K8 as in-fill...

[Floridabwoy]

Sell the Yami K10 and build 2 BFM Titans

[4Mal]

Gleck...

[bassplayerbob]

Originally Posted by Floridabwoy

Sell the Yami K10 and build 2 BFM Titans

Sick cabs!!! Might hold the OP from playing out if he sells his speakers....

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by DRafalske

Hey guys.
I play in a piece classic rock / country cover band and we're finding the PA system is needing a little more oomph for some of the places we're starting to play.

Here's our current setup:
Mackie CFX16II mixer.
2X QSC K10's as mains
1X Yamaha DSR118 sub
3X Peavey 115M monitors driven by a QSC GX7

We seem to be pushing the K10s and Yamaha sub a little too hard to get the volume we need.
We definitely plan to add a 2nd sub. My main question is about the mains. We'd like to keep what we have and add to it, rather than replace pieces. Simply add 2 more K10's? Or should we replace them in favor of larger drivers?

Thanks TB!

D

Based on my reading, you have a 1000 watts from each main and 1000 watts from the sub, 3k watts total. Seems like you just need to move more air.

Another thing to consider is the setup: Are you running the mains from the sub thoughputs? Are the mains set in the External sub mode? Where is the sub placed during a gig? Is the HPF set on the sub? Maybe you're getting more distortion due to the setup?

If you're going to stick with QSC, I suggest two K12's per side vertically stacked with the horns next to each other and another sub placed at right angle to your current one in front of the stage. +1 to using the K10s as monitors. It is highly NOT recommended to put subs on each side of the stage due to frequency cancellations. Check out: Sub stage placement w plots/graphs

+1 to checking out Bill Fitzmaurice cabs. You can have them built for you by an authorized builder. They're much more efficient, take way less power and probably cost less the more QSC stuff. Just add an amp to the Mackie for mains power and then pickup another QSC sub (run signal from the Mackie sub out). Use the 10's for monitors in full range mode.

[bassplayerbob]

Originally Posted by Stumbo

It is highly NOT recommended to put subs on each side of the stage due to frequency cancellations. Check out: Sub stage placement w plots/graphs

We used to put a sub on either side of the stage and we stack ours now. HUGE difference!!!

[walterw]

+1 to a second (identical) sub, which should be placed right against the first one wherever possible.

+1 also to converting the K10s to monitor duty for some K12s at least.

i dunno about more than two tops, i don't think these Ks are made to be placed side-by-side.

[DRafalske]

The sub is on whatever side of the stage I'm on, facing out. I put the mixer next to it and I'm the guy who gets to run the sound from stage. One K10 is pole mounted on the sub, one is on a stand by itself on the other side of the stage. I don't claim to know everything about this stuff, but my bandmates are even less adept, so there ya go.

First, I really don't believe any of those amps are actually doing 1000w. And I don't buy into wattage anyway. In fact, one of the guitarists bought all this stuff (God love him). It's not what I would have picked out. I will add that I'm completely happy with how the system sounds. Setup / teardown is a breeze too. We just need more volume out of it. I'm seeing the clip lights a lot and noticing we're not really filling some of the larger rooms we're starting to play.

Anyway, yes, running L+R from mixer into sub, using the sub's throughput to connect mains. Low pass is set on the sub, the QSC's are set to "EXT SUB" (high pass). The crossover freq on both is 100hz.

What I'm thinking of doing is adding another Yamaha DSR118w and two powered 15" mains, and relegating the K10s to monitor detail. I know the masses seem to like 12's better when using subs, and that's not ruled out, but leaning toward 15's in case we ever do a really small show and don't need the subs.

More QSC gear is all but out of the question, frankly, it's a little too pricey. What are y'all's thoughts on Yamaha DXR and EV ELX?

Thanks guys!
D

[tuBass]

I've used 12's without subs when I can put my bass and a little kick through my amp, and that's all that is needed for the room.

[Big_Daws]

i would suggest if the QSC product is out of the question due to price, is to take a look at the EV ELX. however the kicker is that they are rated the same. and the subs are 300w less power.