Advantage of using a DI box rather than...

selftitled907 · #1 04-10-2011, 06:01 PM

Ok just curious...i hear all sorts of people that talk about using a DI box. when i look at all of my amps...past and present they all have an XLR out to go straight to the mixer. my question is simple. is that the DI box everyone refers to?..or is there an actual DI box? and if so what is the advantage of using a DI box instead of the Direct XLR out to the mixer? If there is another thread on this then i missed it and feel free to just point me in the right direction to that particular thread.

oh yeah....im lookin at this from a live point of view.

-Gabe

spigmu · #2 04-10-2011, 06:40 PM

A DI is usually a box that you plug into and it sends a low impedance signal down the XLR to the mixer and an instrument signal on to the amp so that the house gets your sound before it hits the amp head. Usually live it's after the player's effects but before the amp.

The line out from the amp head is often post amp eq and preamp, which gives it the amp's sound or at least some of the character. Some have an output that's pre (as opposed to post amp, not to be confused with pre-amp : )

A sound person usually wants to get the bass unaffected by our amp.

bongomania · #3 04-10-2011, 06:50 PM

The XLR output on an amp head is a DI output. Whether the signal it sends is "just the bass", or the bass through some tone circuitry, will vary from one amp model to the next.

A DI box is just an external one of those. The reasons to have one are:
Maybe your amp head doesn't have a DI output.
Maybe it does, but it's crappy (noisy, hums, etc.)
What if your amp dies on a gig? An external DI box can save the show.

selftitled907 · #4 04-10-2011, 06:56 PM

So i do all the sound for our band....and your response brings to light another question. is it better to use a dry bass singnal to the mains or should i use my amp EQ and flaten my mix on the board, the GB shuttle 6 has the option for both pre or post eq.

thanks for the DI box input.

-Gabe

MNAirHead · #5 04-10-2011, 07:17 PM

IF you have a DI out on your head.. test that it's quiet and consistent.

most sound guys will use the "no eq" version as it will not cloud the signal.. most importantly it's more predictable.

selftitled907 · #6 04-10-2011, 07:39 PM

awesome. thanks again for the input. the signal i get from it either post or pre EQ is a good signal...pretty much no difference and seeing as the head is brand new it would go to say i would be safe without the DI box for now.

BigMac5 · #7 04-11-2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

What if your amp dies on a gig? An external DI box can save the show.

What kind of crappy amps are you guys paying that keep dying on gigs?

anonymous122511 · #8 04-11-2011, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMac5

What kind of crappy amps are you guys paying that keep dying on gigs?

Bar gig last Saturday and the guitarist's brand new Twin stops working. Going straight into the PA from his Line 6 effects unit saved the night.

I've always had a decent DI of some sort (right now a JDI and a Raven Labs PMB) because I've done a lot of duo work where I could get away with not using an amp at all. It's useful for recording too and no soundman has ever had anything but a positive reaction to my own DI. Depends on your situation though. Someone playing a couple of times a month at a pub probably won't see much value in an external DI. Anyone doing it for a living I'd think would want at least a JDI or Model 85 in their bag.

bongomania · #9 04-11-2011, 02:55 PM

"$#!+ happens". It's not that any one amp model is so crappy that it dies all the time, it's that any one of us, with any quality of amp, could get messed up by a bad ground, a voltage surge, a brownout, a spilled beer, an amp pulled off the top of a cab stack by tripping on a cable, etc. etc. Plus even the best vintage gear can decide to crap the bed at the worst moment.

MNAirHead · #10 04-11-2011, 03:00 PM

IF the sound guy is old school.. some won't trust on board DIs...

When I get a new amp, I'll have a pro sound crew approve the signal (is it a clean signal they can work from).

Tim

MNAirHead · #11 04-11-2011, 03:02 PM

I always carry a Rolls DB25.. .it has a trim pad on it... no matter what I can always reduce a hot signal they're about $25-28 new... very small.. always approved.... you never know if the board has a trim pot on it.

In my bigger gear I have some of the holy grail DIs..

I have had times where there was a ground loop.. a good sound guy will first look at the bassist and ask him to disconnect and go DI.

The "emergencies" have been more short timeline solutions.

Tim

selftitled907 · #12 04-11-2011, 04:36 PM

well this seems to have answered my questions. i know mixing sound between amps and boards can be very situational. but as someone said above...probally not worth it for the weekend warrior/3-4 times a month live player like myself but at the same time....25-85 dollars to save what few shows we play might help a lot if it happens earily in the night and leaves possibility for no play/no pay. might have to at least grab a cheap one for emergencies.

thanks yet again! to all who posted what info the have on DI boxes for me.

i would have just read up online about them but posting here gives info and real life situations which can open the mind a bit more to how they are useful other than how quality a product is and spec's.

love my TB community your all great!

-Gabe

4Mal · #13 04-11-2011, 04:55 PM

I consider my amp a stage monitor most of the time. I frequently play a venue where the FOH is severely limited by the board - basically is's Peavey with no sweepable mid and in the particular system, in that particular room, the mid control should be relabeled mud ... so I run an external DI with EQ for the FOH and send a dry line back to my amp. That way I can massage to signal for the FOH and also have independent EQ for my amp as stage monitor. I find that setup really useful.

ggunn · #14 04-12-2011, 11:40 AM

If you use the on board XLR output, a very handy thing to have in your gig bag is an XLR ground lift. It's just a short plug that's XLR IN on one end and XLR OUT on the other with the ground/shield disconnected. On board XLR outputs are notoriously hummy.

Wes Whitmore · #15 04-13-2011, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Mal

I consider my amp a stage monitor most of the time. I frequently play a venue where the FOH is severely limited by the board - basically is's Peavey with no sweepable mid and in the particular system, in that particular room, the mid control should be relabeled mud ... so I run an external DI with EQ for the FOH and send a dry line back to my amp. That way I can massage to signal for the FOH and also have independent EQ for my amp as stage monitor. I find that setup really useful.

4MAL,
I like this idea. Do you actually walk out with your bass and adjust that DI eq that you are sending to the FOH, and work the eq strip on the FOH board? Can you actually hear the mud from the stage and try to make changes on the DI out on the fly?

I have a LR Baggs para DI that I have been wanting to try on my electric bass to the FOH. It seems to be a pretty uncoloring preamp/DI, and it has a notchable mid sweep if I need it. Only problem is the 1/4 out isn't dry out to my amp, but I can work around that to my personal monitor. Not many people on this board have used this for electric bass, but I own it, so I thought I might try it tomorrow night.

Wes

basswave · #16 04-14-2011, 07:15 AM

There is a debate that some folks think that an good separate DI is not any better then the ones then comes from your average amp.

I'll just say that I prefer a separate DI and do think they sound better.

I usually use a Radial JDV and it sounds super clean and clear, I feel that the nuisances of my playing are better represented, with using a good DI.

Keithwah · #17 04-16-2011, 07:02 AM

Here's what seems to be missing from this thread. Why you must use a direct box with or in conjunction with your amps "DI" or Line Out jack is this.....TRANSFORMER ISOLATION. Remember that one kiddies! TRANSFORMER ISOLATION. There I said it again.......TRANSFORMER ISOLATION and again!

By using a standard passive or active DI from a major brand name (Rapco, Proco, Whirlwind, Countryman, Dbx, Radial, Sansamp, etc) you are using a device that uses a transformer to balance the impedance signal. Some amp makers are just giving you an electronically balanced not transformer balanced signal. The transformer is what allows you to run the long distances without picking up hum on your rig or the PA. Even though my amp and my preamp have "D.I." outputs that are XLR's, I always take my line out (post eq/fx) and run it to my Sansamp Bass DI (I have the original black box gotta take it apart to adjust version) and then to the PA. I get the ground lift switch to avoid the hums and buzzes as well. DO NOT BUY A DI WITHOUT A GROUND LIFT SWITCH!

And folks, remember, friends don't let real friends buy Berhinger.

GrowlerBox · #18 04-16-2011, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithwah

Here's what seems to be missing from this thread. Why you must use a direct box with or in conjunction with your amps "DI" or Line Out jack is this.....TRANSFORMER ISOLATION. Remember that one kiddies! TRANSFORMER ISOLATION. There I said it again.......TRANSFORMER ISOLATION and again!

One more reason I dig my RH450 -- the DI out is transformer isolated.

Keithwah · #19 04-16-2011, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

One more reason I dig my RH450 -- the DI out is transformer isolated.

Clowns, however, are still scary.

Even though this one carries a DI, which is a comfort to the pro audio guy side of me. The musician side however, is still hiding under the kitchen table.

But seriously guys, if you ever plan on gigging, own your very own DI, the passive ones are very inexpensive and will last until you lose it. The transformer will never go bad or get toasted.

And the comfort of knowing you have a proper balanced signal going to the front of house also strongly reduces the odds of a building ground loop make your lips go zing when you start smooching that SM58 asking for more vocals in your monitors. Using those 3 to 2 AC cheater (like Mom uses on her frig outlet) are an absolute no no! It removes ground and almost always can result in shock potential.

TimmyP · #20 04-17-2011, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMac5

What kind of crappy amps are you guys paying that keep dying on gigs?

You mean what brands of amps have I seen that became unusable on gigs? Aguilar, Ampeg, Eden, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Marshal, Matchless, Mesa, SWR, and Vox off the top of my head. Nothing is perfect. Hell, even Lexus has a service department. If they were perfect, they'd just send all their customers to JiffyLube every 3 months.