In all actuality, how much does your tone matter?

[capnsandwich]

I've been in a bunch of projects and different bands. I've played the ultra-clean tone and the crazy over driven tone as well. I have a lot of money in my rig and I expect a lot when I record to get the EXACT tone I want on that certain CD.

Then, I hear the actual CD that I play on and it's a totally different tone that I thought I was going for. WTH? They tell me they want one thing and totally go the opposite direction.

This has brought me to the point that I simply play my parts, no matter what I think the song may need, and the engineer/producer will correct and change the tone accordingly even though the artist and I have discussed EXACTLY what he/she wants in tone. I'm a pretty versatile player, playing everything from a nice slap groove to a heavy pick groove for rock.

As much as I adjust, how much is actually necessary for a bass player to learn, perfect, and master? Most producers think about bass tone when they take a piss break. I do what I need to do, as far as I know, but as much as I think, that's how much I realize they don't give a ****.

Am I alone? I doubt it.

[zachoff]

Tone is of utmost importance for me. I'm not that awesome of a player so I might as well sound good playing what I play.

[capnsandwich]

Originally Posted by zachoff

Tone is of utmost importance for me. I'm not that awesome of a player so I might as well sound good playing what I play.

I have found that, no matter how much I play or what I play, my tone gets buried into some sort of pop/metal tone that has no shape or identity.

[zachoff]

Recorded or live? Most of the time when we play live I'm not even mic'd so I have total control. When I am mic'd I usually tell the sound guy to set the EQ flat. Recorded was kinda the same way though we split a mic signal w/ a SansAmp BDDI & adjusted accordingly. What are you running?

[capnsandwich]

Originally Posted by zachoff

Recorded or live? Most of the time when we play live I'm not even mic'd so I have total control. When I am mic'd I usually tell the sound guy to set the EQ flat. Recorded was kinda the same way though we split a mic signal w/ a SansAmp BDDI & adjusted accordingly. What are you running?

I usually run a Sansamp BDDI into a GK MB212. That's just one band, though. I also have a band that likes a cleaner, punchier tone for funkier grooves. For that, I use a GK MB212 completely flat and a bass that has active electronics. A good jazz bass meets my needs usually.

[Ric5]

It is all about tone ... bad tone makes listening to music unpleasant.

[sikamikanico]

talk to them, ask questions... it could be their ignorance, or it could be you not seeing the big picture...

and no, individual tone does not matter as much as the whole - the band sound...

[Liam Wald]

Tone is really super important to me. Even though I play in a 7 piece band the bass is very dominant in the sound of the band. I am not sure how much of the sound I get is equipment and how much is touch and technique.
I play a modulus q4 through an swr amp and avatar speakers (2x10 and B153. Nothing special really. I use no effects at all. I am constantly getting comments about the tone that I get. Even bass players ask me how I get the sound I'm getting. I have no idea other than "it's just how I play after 45 years at it". That's live. When it comes to recording I have learned not to argue with the engineer and the producer. It takes way too much energy and they just do what they want to do anyway.
Seems to me that tone must be just as important to most everyone else who plays bass. I am quite sure that bass players spend just as much, if not more, than other instrumentalists on gear.

[SactoBass]

Originally Posted by Ric5

It is all about tone ... bad tone makes listening to music unpleasant.

Ric5 hit the nail on the head.

I have read a plethora of posts from various TB'ers insisting that the audience can't tell the difference. My response to such a comment is this: *I* can tell the difference when I'm on stage, and when I like my tone, my enjoyment level goes up. And for me, the reason I play music is for the enjoyment level. So tone is of paramount importance to me.

[Liam Wald]

Maybe I just flatter myself because I am a bass player...
But I believe that the sound of the bass has more overall effect on the sound of the band than any other instrument.
If the bass sounds really good most everything else will sound just fine.
If the bass sounds like ****, no matter how good everything else sounds the band will sound poorly.
Just my opinion!

[SactoBass]

Originally Posted by Liam Wald

Maybe I just flatter myself because I am a bass player...
But I believe that the sound of the bass has more overall effect on the sound of the band than any other instrument.
If the bass sounds really good most everything else will sound just fine.
If the bass sounds like ****, no matter how good everything else sounds the band will sound poorly.
Just my opinion!

Great post! And even though we bass players will probably never generate sufficient scientific data to prove it, I have a hunch that your theory is not far from truth. IMO, the bass provides the foundation.

(And even though all of the bass playing community, along with Talkbass, is actually the very center of the universe, and everything else revolves around us, there is no need to belabor that point and cause non-bassists to feel inferior.)

[jimmyjames77]

Yes I am a bass player but even if I wasn't I'd still say that the bass guitar is one of the most moving things in a track, whether listeners realize it or not. The bass guitar tone is paramount in any good track.

[James Judson]

If you want to be accused of having great tone, play the same notes as the bass drum. It works for me.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by James Judson

If you want to be accused of having great tone, play the same notes as the bass drum. It works for me.

EWWW! OK, there are times when that works, but most of the time it gets monotonous. Some of the greatest basslines in history were done with the bass player plowing through the drums. Besides, if there's any following to do, I think the drummer should be doing it since you're trying to play off the rhythm instruments.

But that's another topic...I say ask the engineer why he doesn't think the sound you wanted isn't working for him. If he blows you off, there's really not much you can do if you're not the one paying for it, but most engineers will at least tell you what they think. In the end, though, it's whoever's paying that really calls the shots, and if they think a tone you don't like sounds good to them, then you're SOL. But if you're contributing to the money, you have every right to fight for the tone you want. Just be open minded to the idea that your idea might not line up with everyone else's and you may get overrided, unless you're the only one paying. And then it's time to call the shots!

[bluesdogblues]

Tone is very important.

To the OP:
There are good producers, there are 'not so good' producers.
There are good producers that also share the same vision and taste as you.
If you find and work with the later, then your concept, vision and taste of 'good bass tone' for the record might survive till it's final stage.

The best case is if the producer of the record which you play bass on it are you yourself

Just my 2 cents

[capnsandwich]

When the guy who I'm playing for tells me he likes a well overdriven, punchy tube tone then that should tell the producer that he needs to mic my cabinet, not plug me in direct and use his post production mix down skills to give me some generic, bland tone that takes absolutely no thought to produce.

The songwriter/guitarist is pretty pissed about the whole ordeal. He wants me to have a certain tone but the engineer wants to half-ass it and move through the songs as if he was on some sort of schedule.

[JimmyM]

Take the recordings and go somewhere else and reamp them. If the engineer's going to be lazy, no sense throwing good money after bad.

[faulknersj]

The producers thought process is this: If you record dirty bass thru a mic'd amp, the only control you will have over that track after it is recorded is via EQ changes. If you record the bass clean, and add effects later, there are a multitude of different post effect options that can be tried and tweaked thru trial and error. I am not defending him, just explaining where he is probably coming from. Because bass is often one of the first instruments recorded, it is very difficult for a producer to tell how a track recorded with effects already in place will sit in the final mix with guitars, singers, keys, whatever. The good news is, if this 'producer' has a ton of pro-tools plug ins, etc...there is room to try tons of different 'dirty' effect options. Second option: leave your clean track intact, go back and record and overdub dirty part after everything else has been recorded to ensure it sits in the mix properly and has the right amount of 'dirt', and then potentially blend the clean and dirty tracks to taste.

[capnsandwich]

Originally Posted by faulknersj

The producers thought process is this: If you record dirty bass thru a mic'd amp, the only control you will have over that track after it is recorded is via EQ changes. If you record the bass clean, and add effects later, there are a multitude of different post effect options that can be tried and tweaked thru trial and error. I am not defending him, just explaining where he is probably coming from. Because bass is often one of the first instruments recorded, it is very difficult for a producer to tell how a track recorded with effects already in place will sit in the final mix with guitars, singers, keys, whatever. The good news is, if this 'producer' has a ton of pro-tools plug ins, etc...there is room to try tons of different 'dirty' effect options. Second option: leave your clean track intact, go back and record and overdub dirty part after everything else has been recorded to ensure it sits in the mix properly and has the right amount of 'dirt', and then potentially blend the clean and dirty tracks to taste.

Definitely understand that point of view. My problem is that if the person "paying" for the recording wants it a certain way, then isn't it good business practice to give the customer what he/she wants? We're willing to buy more time and record tracks again if they don't mesh right with the rest of the mix.

[tdub0199]

Originally Posted by capnsandwich

When the guy who I'm playing for tells me he likes a well overdriven, punchy tube tone then that should tell the producer that he needs to mic my cabinet, not plug me in direct and use his post production mix down skills to give me some generic, bland tone that takes absolutely no thought to produce.

The songwriter/guitarist is pretty pissed about the whole ordeal. He wants me to have a certain tone but the engineer wants to half-ass it and move through the songs as if he was on some sort of schedule.

If this is the case, I would go elsewhere.... "It's My tone and I want it now" lmao