To All Professional Audio Engineers

[KingRazor]

Whether you mix for recordings, or live sound, and whether you do the operating or setting up the system, if you're a professional, I'd like to ask a question:

Did you get a degree for the job, and if so, which one?

[stflbn]

IMHO, it's a lot like most other careers... there's the people who know how to do it and are great at it, and there's the people who have a degree and tell people they're good at it.

[KingRazor]

Understandable, for sure. I don't have a degree and there are people at my job who have degrees and don't make any more money than I do. So I'm aware that a degree doesn't necessarily mean anything.

That being said, it seems like most careers out there require bachelor's degrees now. Besides, if nothing else, getting a bachelor's degree at least shows you had the "stickitoitiveness" to actually get one.

But I don't want to waste my time getting a degree that won't take me anywhere.

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

Understandable, for sure. I don't have a degree and there are people at my job who have degrees and don't make any more money than I do. So I'm aware that a degree doesn't necessarily mean anything.

That being said, it seems like most careers out there require bachelor's degrees now. Besides, if nothing else, getting a bachelor's degree at least shows you had the "stickitoitiveness" to actually get one.

But I don't want to waste my time getting a degree that won't take me anywhere.

Having been a stagehand for thirty years I can tell you there's actually some animosity towards people who's main experience is school. You might learn a lot of practical things in school but as an audio guy (or any kind of stage tech for that matter) waving a diploma around will scream "no real world experience". The kind of mindless "stickitoitiveness" you have to have to slug through school just isn't valued in this world at all. Quick, creative problem solving is though and you only acquire that through long experience doing it in less than ideal situations.

[KingRazor]

Alright, then here's a different question entirely:

I do sound at my church twice a week and have been doing it for the past two years. I handle the recording, editing, and uploading of the podcasts of our services.

Where else can I get experience in this field? What kind of companies hire amateur audio engineers? How much experience do you need on average before you would be considered for a professional position?

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

Alright, then here's a different question entirely:

I do sound at my church twice a week and have been doing it for the past two years. I handle the recording, editing, and uploading of the podcasts of our services.

Where else can I get experience in this field? What kind of companies hire amateur audio engineers? How much experience do you need on average before you would be considered for a professional position?

You have some experience you just need more knowledge. I didn't mean to say school was a waste of time just that the piece of paper at the end is less than meaningless.

Are you in a city that has an IATSE local? Working as a stagehand is a good way of getting to pick the brains of experienced techs. It's also a good way of seeing there are a lot of idiots working in the business and figuring out what you can do to differentiate yourself from them.

[KingRazor]

IATSE Local 28 :: Contact Us

That place isn't too far from where I live.

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

IATSE Local 28 :: Contact Us

That place isn't too far from where I live.

Go for it. It's seniority based and not only can you learn a lot right now it's insurance for the future. I know a few top notch touring guys who stay alive on union work when other gigs are slow. Understand though you'd be going in as a box pusher likely years and years away from running a console in a union house. Think keen but humble and willing to work in any department. Also learn to tie a clove hitch and a bowline in your sleep BEFORE you go in. Seriously this is really important and can make or break you getting permittee status.

[fokof]

I studied in music , electric bass.

The 'tech' part was learned on the fly.

I don't consider myself an "engineer" but a soundman as I don't know much about electronics.

I learned the profession of soundman by ear and experience instead of by electronics.

Only advice I can give: ear training is very important.

[fokof]

Around here IATSE is not a positive thing.

Only old "has been" are in there.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by fokof

I studied in music , electric bass.

The 'tech' part was learned on the fly.

I don't consider myself an "engineer" but a soundman as I don't much about electronics.

I learned the profession of soundman by ear and experience instead of by electronics.

I'm a really technical guy. I work with computers a lot.

But I also play bass. So mixing sound combines my talents. That's one of the reasons I like it so much.

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by fokof

Around here IATSE is not a positive thing.

Where is "around here"? Please expand on your vague statement.

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by fokof

Around here IATSE is not a positive thing.

Originally Posted by jeff arddun

Where is "around here"? Please expand on your vague statement.

No response? So this was just a hack 'n' run on IATSE and you really got nothing? Nice.

Yes the union does protect the lazy and incompetent. But it also protects the highly skilled professionals. What you're missing is that those are the guys who quietly get the job done right without attracting much notice and they are the majority. I've worked both union and non-union since the early '80's so I know both sides of the fence real well.

When I high rig at the union sports arena I make $43/hr plus time and a half on Sunday, double time after midnight and a medical/dental plan. The non union sports arena pays $28-$35 depending on what deal you can cut, no medical plan and you never see overtime. And if you "whine" about working six hours with no break or meal penalty paid they won't call you back. For anyone considering a long term career as a stage tech of any sort it pays to join the union.

When I was touring with arena rock bands you always knew whether the house you were going into was union or not. There were always a few of the road crew who would treat the non union local crews like $h!t because they knew they could get away with it. All in all I've found the union environment to pay better, educate better, protect better and be more secure than any non union company I've worked for.

[Rockmusician]

There is nothing like hands on experience but the combination of experience and schooling would probably give you an advantage.

[fokof]

Originally Posted by jeff arddun

No response?

PM sent

[TL5]

For the last 10 years I've made my living, full time, with audio and video.

I studied architecture, then went into broadcasting.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by TL5

For the last 10 years I've made my living, full time, with audio and video.

I studied architecture, then went into broadcasting.

And?

[Never_grew_up]

Even in non-union states (like here in Georgia) the big houses use mostly union labor. It's easier for the production manager to make 1 call to the local to request 3, 5, or 12+ hands than it is to call a list of local freelancers to fill slots. Any place that has touring shows come in will also use mostly union local hands because the tour's contract may require it.
Joining the union is also one of the few ways to do this kind of work and have access to health benefits.

[KingRazor]

I actually have a lot more experience than knowledge. Even though it's not a whole lot of experience, about 2 and 1/2 years of mixing for a church worship team twice a week. A good start, I would think.

So far I've learned things such as setting gain structure, using compression and EQ, and mixing from a combination of personal experience, tips from a former sound tech at my church, and the internet.

I'm more of a computer guy than a sound guy, and I see myself more in the IT field than in sound production, but I definitely could see myself participating in some sound production here and there. Professional or not. As a musician, I definitely see some music in my future career, just with a much heavier emphasis on computers and technology than the actual music.

[D.A.R.K.]

I'm a full time foh engineer for touring bands. No degree, yet. When I started there were few and far between degrees available. Even then, what were you really paying for? Terminology courses, and hands on time.
I was able to learn everything by working hands on and being taught in the field (while being paid) by some really great engineers, so I was lucky. I accidentally began picking up the skills when playing full time, working with monitor guys and calling frequencies to eq wedges for singers. I now work for a few local companies when not on the road, and the funny thing is there are lots of young kids coming straight out of full sail and various colleges with degrees who know things technically, but can't mix their way out of a paper bag. I believe it's one of those things just like playing music: you have a natural aptitude, or you don't.
I still think about getting a degree, but one main issue I see is that gear and technology advances so quickly I'd be paying into something that becomes outmoded before the payoff. I'm first call a lot because I'm proficient and fast with digital consoles, and have worked on almost all the pro level ones available on the market. I mention this because I learned hands on in the field, and don't know of any program that has such a wide array of technology readily available for hands on training. It still seems better to get paid to learn than the other way around, although I also realize the extreme luck I've had in landing in my position.