amp facing wall??? for distributed church band

blakelock · #1 03-23-2011, 08:27 AM

hey all,
this sunday we're doing something weird. the church band will be spread all around the congregation. the room is ~50x75ft and i'll be about halfway down one of the long walls. i'm using a genz benz 110 with shuttle head. it sounds good and is plenty loud enough but i'm worried about blasting out the people nearby in order to be heard elsewhere.

would it be a good idea to face my amp to the wall? i'm trying to help distribute my sound rather than localize it. i also have a mesa scout (12" speaker with bottom radiator). would the scout be a better choice? i know there are many factors but any general advice would be appreciated.

Savage_Dreams · #2 03-23-2011, 08:33 AM

that sounds like a nightmare to try to balance everyones sound. are you all electric instruments? a wireless would be a better answer and then keep all your amps in one place. if you have acoustic instruments then i dont know what to tell you. facing your amp to the wall could do weird things depending on the room. who knows where it might shoot your sound. i dont see at all how you guys would sound good playing like that, everyone in the room will hear more of whats in front of them than the rest of the group

blakelock · #3 03-23-2011, 11:39 AM

yeah, sonically it's a tough situation. the conceptual idea is that you've got ideas and input coming from many different places and they come together to make something special (what can i say? we're unitarians). that's why we're spread out. i could run through the PA to help even it all out while still getting a slight bump from my personal amp. that might maintain the theme while making the best out a bad situation.

biobass · #4 03-23-2011, 03:46 PM

A long, long time ago (35 years) I tried turning my speakers (Ampeg B25 2x15) to face the wall when playing in low volume jazz situations. I thought it might spread the sound and maybe make my jazz bass a little less electric sounding. I don't think it accomplished much beyond making it all sound muddy by taking away the mids and the (limited ) highs from the audience which gives your sound definition.

Its a nice idea conceptually, but even in a room that size, I think the time delay between the instrmentalists will make it darn near impossible for you to keep together, unless you are all using monitors of some sort. By the time you hear what the pianist plays and play along, then the time it takes for your sound to reach him or her, things will be way out of whack. If you try to play solely by visual cues from the conductor it will be very difficult as well.

Good luck,
Dennis

Highway27 · #5 03-23-2011, 10:46 PM

Depending on how your cabinet acts, it might not be too bad right next to it, especially if you leave it on the same floor that everyone is on. I don't think turning it to the wall will really help you, you'd just need to turn it up louder to deal with that.

I would be more worried about the audible delay, tho. Even if you're just halfway down a 75' room, trying to follow what someone on the end is playing will result in a 70ms delay for them hearing what you're doing. So for some folks it will always seem like everyone's playing behind what they're doing. If you get a chance to practice it, and you could get used to playing ahead of what other folks are doing, running through the PA might help, but in that case, having your amp next to you might be bad for the folks who are near you, since you'll just seem to be playing early compared to everyone else.

Good luck tho, sounds like an interesting challenge.

T-Bird · #6 03-24-2011, 02:09 AM

Hi.

Facing the cab towards the wall, and the horrible frequency response it'll cause will be the very least of Your problems.

The delay biobass & Highway27 above talks about will be the proverbial nail in the proverbial coffin.

If You're still bent on trying to accomplish what ever You're trying to accomplish, please do yourselves a favour and rehearse it before Sunday.

There's a reason large choirs and orchestras have a conductor or iem's for everyone.

In Your case, I don't think iem's or wireless mics would help much either, too many unpredictable delays, standing waves, reflections etc.

Regards
Sam

blakelock · #7 03-24-2011, 09:24 AM

thanks for the advice. i hadn't even thought about audio delays. we did practice it and the biggest prob i had was hearing the pianist ~50ft away. i focused on watching them play rather than listening to stay in sinc. since there's such a delay, watching is probably better than listening anyway.

The Lurker · #8 03-24-2011, 02:28 PM

Jah Wobble used to do this for recording-- fire a SVT and 8x10 into a brick wall and put the mic behind it.

blakelock · #9 03-28-2011, 10:39 AM

just an update for y'all.

the show went fine. in fact, several people approached me and said they really liked the spatially "uneven" mix of the instruments. who knew!?! anyway, the hardest part was keeping time. i didn't hear any sort of sound reflections but i couldn't really hear the other musicians very well. we managed though.

cheers.

sammyp · #10 03-28-2011, 11:14 AM

hit the church up for in ears.....

Ric5 · #11 03-28-2011, 11:21 AM

Amp facing the wall = bad tone ...

If you are too loud then turn down.

JimmyM · #12 03-29-2011, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakelock

just an update for y'all.

the show went fine. in fact, several people approached me and said they really liked the spatially "uneven" mix of the instruments. who knew!?! anyway, the hardest part was keeping time. i didn't hear any sort of sound reflections but i couldn't really hear the other musicians very well. we managed though.

cheers.

glad you managed, but hopefully that'll be the last time they try it. that sets up a pretty impossible situation for the musicians with delays and all that. i'm sure whoever came up with the ideals of the unitarian church never had to play in a band with amplified instruments.

blakelock · #13 03-29-2011, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

glad you managed,... i'm sure whoever came up with the ideals of the unitarian church never had to play in a band with amplified instruments.

you got that right. it's a crazy mix of everything (buddhist, christian, jew, atheist....) so it's kind of a "it's all good" philosophy...even bad sound

we had a jam recently with a homemade electric hammer dulcimer!

i forgot to mention that i did not face my amp to the wall. i was along the long wall so i faced the amp halfway between the audience and the front stage (that's where the percussionists were and i wanted to make sure they heard me).