Appropriate time length for soundcheck?

[RichardCranium]

Lately we've been getting less and less time for soundcheck at our gigs for various reasons (not gonna air dirty laundry here but priorities are out of whack) and as our soundman I have a hard time getting a decent sound with a 10 minute soundcheck because we just have no time to tweak the PA for different rooms and conditions.

Here's a typical scenario:

10 PM gig
Leave at 7
Arrive 7:30-7:45
Hour give or take setup time
10-15 minute soundcheck
Relax before gig
Tweak as best as I can during first set.

We work hard to sound good but I can't work miracles in 10 minutes.

So what is a appropriate amount of time? Half hour? Hour?

Discuss.

[shtik]

The appropriate IDEAL time for sound check is until FOH engineer feels comfortable with FOH sound and musicians feel comfortable with their sound on stage.

It can be one song's length if everything's set up from yesterday up to an hour and a half or 2 hours if it's a new venue, and all musicians need special care with their IEM mixes.

Found out that in the very rare cases I need to do sound and play, actually there's some magic happening because I can't really do it as good as I wanted so I just do basic tweaks and in a few minutes I get a really nice mix. I think when you don't expect much because of the conditions you end up being surprised from how it sounds in the end...

But obviously 10 minutes to tune the system and get the FOH and stage mix running are far from being ideal.

I realize from what you said in your post, getting there earlier just can't happen, so I would do my best and let the music do the rest

[Jimbob Jones]

20 minutes minimum, anything over 40 minutes is getting ridiculous, unless the 'sound check' in question is also a band practice.

A lot of it depends on the band though, I know a couple of bands (who have their own PA) who turn up, set up, tune up, and the first thing to come out of the speakers is when they hit the first note of the first song.

[testing1two]

Different scenarios require different time periods, but 10-15 minutes isn't unrealistic for an average size band if the players are efficient and know their monitor needs, the engineer is experienced enough to anticipate everyone's basic needs in advance and the system is tuned (i.e. mics are positioned correctly, monitors are rung out, etc.). But if you don't have these things in place you can double or triple that time and still be fixing things during the show.

One final thing to keep in mind: if you are working at venues where sound check happens with patrons in the room, then you're under the gun to finish ASAP. Sound checks are bad for their business so you can make a positive impression on management by being efficient.

[allexcosta]

It depends on the size of the gig...

Large concerts with bands of 12-15 musicians can take 3 or 4 hours because you check monitors and FOH, delay towers, IEM's, etc...

On a bar gig you adjust gain and check if there's any noise on the channel. 15-20 minutes for a 4 piece band is average... There's no need to play a full song. Levels are adjusted during the first song...

[modulusman]

Good gear can make a big difference also. If you have crappy mains/monitors it takes alot longer to make them sound good. WE use IEMs which are pretty much dialed in with some minor adjustments. We can usually do a soundcheck in about 20 minutes.

[Rockmusician]

30 minutes or more is not unusual by the time each band member has their levels checked and EQed, and the sound guy can do a mix with the entire band playing.

[walterw]

so this is the same band with the same PA every time? and it's a "regular" 4-5 piece rock band playing bars/clubs?

i can't see it taking more than one entire song.

i mix while playing and never get separate soundchecks at all, and it doesn't take any band i'm in more than the first song or two of the actual set to get things dialed in fine.

it's useful to pick starting songs that lend themselves to this, say, tunes with extended intros before the singing starts, or ones that bring in one instrument at a time (also, ones that i don't need to sing or step on any pedals during, so i can run out with the ol' wireless to check things).

[RichardCranium]

Thanks for the responses. It's a 4 piece band with a sequencer. We have a decent PA and gear it's more an issue of the mains than monitors we're all IEM and those are mostly dialed in and it's just minor tweaks as we go.

It's tweaking the EQ and settings between an outdoor patio gig and an indoor gig in a small brick and tile square room which can make the system sound and respond totally different.

My requests to leave and get setup earlier so we're not rushing to setup and soundcheck with people there is falling on deaf ears and I'm slightly frustrated.

[modulusman]

What are you using for speakers and do you have a graphic EQ?

[allexcosta]

Originally Posted by RichardCranium

It's tweaking the EQ and settings between an outdoor patio gig and an indoor gig in a small brick and tile square room which can make the system sound and respond totally different.

Sure it can... Using low volume and tilting the tops down a few degrees can do wonders in these situations.

[Vinny D]

In the bar/club world that I provide sound for with various bands, they usually just get a line check.
There are not many rooms left in my area that allow for long setup times, usually you are waiting for staff to move tables out of the way so you can set your gear up!.
If you are used to your equipment it really doesn't take more then a line check to be up and running.

[RichardCranium]

Originally Posted by modulusman

What are you using for speakers and do you have a graphic EQ?

We have Yamaha S115V mains, powered Peavey subs and yes we have a graphic EQ.

I'm probably making more of a big deal than needs be but I also want to zero the board and effects and start from scratch and just don't have the time. We also don't seem to be able to rehearse anymore so that's off the table too for tweaking.

I admit I'm not the best soundman either I can't just hear the vocals and go "Oh a little less 2K and a little more 850" or whatever.

Just frustrated and ranting thanks for listening.

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by RichardCranium

Thanks for the responses. It's a 4 piece band with a sequencer. We have a decent PA and gear it's more an issue of the mains than monitors we're all IEM and those are mostly dialed in and it's just minor tweaks as we go.

It's tweaking the EQ and settings between an outdoor patio gig and an indoor gig in a small brick and tile square room which can make the system sound and respond totally different.

My requests to leave and get setup earlier so we're not rushing to setup and soundcheck with people there is falling on deaf ears and I'm slightly frustrated.

It sounds like your band and mine have similar set-ups (my band being 5-piece but no sequencers)... and similar priority issues. We run all our own sound and I would say that we wind up doing a full-band soundcheck no more than 1 out of every 5 gigs. For better or worse, our BL is really big on lights and we have a pretty comprehensive light show (which we also set up and run ourselves), so by the time the lights are all up and running there's usually not a lot of time or energy left for a traditional soundcheck.

What usually happens is a full soundcheck on the drums (10 minutes max), then a brief run-through with just the drums and bass (5 minutes on average, never more than 10), and then all the other instruments and vox get a line check and that's it. And sometimes I have to push to even get a bass soundcheck with the drums... it's just not that important to the BL and the other members.

What really saves our bacon is digital technology and in-ear monitors. We use a Yamaha digital board with saved mixes for the various types of venues we play (small room, big room, outdoor, etc.) so even on the numerous gigs we go live without a full band check our sound is still reasonably dialed-in from the first note. Also, the amp I use (a Line6 LowDown 150) is DI'd to the board and has pre-sets for both of my basses, so a consistent sound in tone and level is hitting the board every time. In fact, even my stage volume (Master) never varies by more than about 15% regardless of the stage. And finally, we are all on wireless IEMs and those IEM mixes are also saved in the board. So as long as everyone's belt packs and earbuds are working, we're pretty much golden.

So bottom line, the 20-25 minutes we average on a soundcheck is certainly less than ideal ... but thanks to modern technology it's not a gig-breaker either. We almost never get a complaint about our sound and in fact we are complimented on it quite a bit.

[MNAirHead]

How long.. depends if there are paying customers in the room... also depends if you have good gear in great order... and know how to use it.

I've played in bands where we just do a DB reading from middle room on each send.. (we recorded it in a good mix)... quick go through.. everyone does a very fast level... then a quick blend.. over in 5 minutes tops.,...

the more tenured the guys the better they are at self-blending.

[Antoanto]

Originally Posted by shtik

The appropriate IDEAL time for sound check is until FOH engineer feels comfortable with FOH sound and musicians feel comfortable with their sound on stage.

It can be one song's length if everything's set up from yesterday up to an hour and a half or 2 hours if it's a new venue, and all musicians need special care with their IEM mixes.

Hi everybody. My first post, so ... Nice to meet :-)

I agree: experienced sound engineer + the band knowing their mix needs on stage can do miracles. I'd also add: good technical rider and sense of anticipation make techs life easier and setup/sound check quicker

Back soon with my "quest for the best" experience (ended up with a Sadowsky Will Lee japan made)

[Stinsok]

We did a gig at a club where the management had asked us not to be like the previous band. They did a sound check for more than an hour, and annoyed the crap out of the patrons.

[alangoldstein]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

How long.. depends if there are paying customers in the room... also depends if you have good gear in great order... and know how to use it.

I've played in bands where we just do a DB reading from middle room on each send.. (we recorded it in a good mix)... quick go through.. everyone does a very fast level... then a quick blend.. over in 5 minutes tops.,...

the more tenured the guys the better they are at self-blending.

we do a half song for sound check

[alangoldstein]

if sound check is b4 crowd shows up like 4 pm ( like the flecktones do ) or if you are only band that night that's a diffent story, but we don't have that luxury. at bars. we have to wait for sound man to show up, or don't have one at all... so the pa is next to the guitarist who then makes tweaks there on a table near side stage left

we sound check right b4 going on, so it's half a song if that..... the rest is done during first song or between first and second song

wish it was a perfect world lol

[jaywa]

Yeah, soundchecking while customers are in the house is a total PITA.

Especially when the BL decides that would be a good opportunity to "practice" a new song everyone barely knows. Nothing like hacking your way through new material to make a good first impression. In those cases I would rather not soundcheck at all.