avalon 737 into crest power amp... no idea how DI's work in a live situation.

thumbstruck · #1 02-28-2013, 12:10 AM

Ok, so I've been a guitarist for many many years, and switched to bass about a year ago while I was working on my record. I'm about to play my first show this weekend, and it seems like the cleanest way to go is to give the sound guy a DI for the house, rather than mic'ing the cabs.

So here's the rookie question. If I'm going into an Avalon 737/Crest CA6, there is not DI out... so do I just take something like my Radial Pro DI and give him the lowZ out and send the Thru signal to my stage rig for stage sound? Seems like giving him straight bass guitar sound would be a bit sterile, but this is new territory for me, so advice would be appreciated!

bongomania · #2 02-28-2013, 12:49 AM

That is exactly how most people would do it, and how most soundmen want it.

However the fact that you've got an Avalon tells us you're not satisfied with the basic minimum approach.

If you get a balanced splitter box, hook it to the output of the Avalon, you can send one out from it to the power amp, and the other to the PA. The one issue there is the signal the PA will be line level, so they'll need to pad your channel down at the mixer.

Stone Soup · #3 02-28-2013, 12:55 AM

Are the 1/4" inputs on the Crest parallel to the XLR inputs? If they are, run a cable from the 1/4" in on the Crest to your D.I. input, then run your XLR to the board.

Rather unconventional...

lowfreq33 · #4 02-28-2013, 01:02 AM

I'd want to send the sound guy the signal from the Avalon...

Stone Soup · #5 02-28-2013, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

I'd want to send the sound guy the signal from the Avalon...

If the 1/4" inputs on the Crest are parallel to the XLR inputs, you would be.

thumbstruck · #6 02-28-2013, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stone Soup

If the 1/4" inputs on the Crest are parallel to the XLR inputs, you would be.

CA6 manual- "Connectors for each channel are in parallel; the unused connectors may be used for “loop through” connection to other amplifiers."

Sounds like that's the ticket. So I'll just give him an XLR line off the free input, no need for any DI after that or buffer of some sort?

Stone Soup · #7 02-28-2013, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thumbstruck

CA6 manual- "Connectors for each channel are in parallel; the unused connectors may be used for “loop through” connection to other amplifiers."

Sounds like that's the ticket. So I'll just give him an XLR line off the free input, no need for any DI after that or buffer of some sort?

No, you'll run a 1/4" cable from the same side (A or B) of the Crest. In other words: If you plug the Avalon into side A of the amp, you then jump from the 1/4" on side A to the D.I., then run your XLR from the D.I. to the console. The other XLR on the Crest is an input for side B of the amp. A and B are not parallel inputs; they're each for one side of the amp (stereo).

thumbstruck · #8 02-28-2013, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stone Soup

No, you'll run a 1/4" cable from the same side (A or B) of the Crest. In other words: If you plug the Avalon into side A of the amp, you then jump from the 1/4" on side A to the D.I., then run your XLR from the D.I. to the console. The other XLR on the Crest is for side B of the amp. A and B are not parallel inputs; the're each for one side of the amp (stereo).

Ah right, I'm just getting my caffeine on for the day. So the Avalon's output is a balanced line 1/4". Go into the Crest's channel A 1/4", and then the XLR input on channel A is the thru to go to a DI box -> console.

bongomania · #9 02-28-2013, 11:27 AM

I am not positive, but it sounds to me like a DI box would not be necessary.

1/4" balanced out of the Avalon to channel A 1/4" balanced input of the Crest (make sure that 1/4" input is balanced).

XLR input of channel A is in parallel to the 1/4" input, so theoretically the signal stays balanced when using the XLR as a pass-through output.

Therefore the XLR will act as a DI with a high output level. Note however the gender of the XLR will be backwards (using an input as an output), so you'll need a gender adapter.

Another consideration is that most DI boxes do not have an XLR input, so you would not be hooking the XLR directly up to a DI box anyway. You'd need an XLR-1/4" adapter.

You could solve the gender and plug-type problems in one go by getting a short cable with 1/4" on one end and the necessary gender of XLR on the other.

Stone Soup · #10 02-28-2013, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

I am not positive, but it sounds to me like a DI box would not be necessary.

1/4" balanced out of the Avalon to channel A 1/4" balanced input of the Crest (make sure that 1/4" input is balanced).

Good point. I just assumed thumbstruck wouldn't have a balanced (TRS or stereo) 1/4" cable to make the run with. Everyone has a spare 1/4" unbalanced (TS, mono or guitar) cable to run to a D.I..

bongomania · #11 02-28-2013, 11:38 AM

Ah yeah, you're right. I was confused because he said

Quote:

Originally Posted by thumbstruck

So the Avalon's output is a balanced line 1/4".

Stone Soup · #12 02-28-2013, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thumbstruck

Ah right, I'm just getting my caffeine on for the day. So the Avalon's output is a balanced line 1/4". Go into the Crest's channel A 1/4", and then the XLR input on channel A is the thru to go to a DI box -> console.

The back panel on the Avalon I looked at only had one XLR out. So you would go XLR out from the Avalon and into the Crest's XLR in and then out using the 1/4" from the Crest to the D.I. .

Took me four tries to word that so it made sense. ugh... I know what I mean.

bongomania · #13 02-28-2013, 11:42 AM

So that solves the gender problem, as he'd use a normal mic cable from the Avalon to the Crest. Then the 1/4" input of the same channel of the Crest would be used as an output.

If that 1/4" passes through a balanced connection, then no DI box is needed--just a TRS to XLR cable for connection to the PA snake.

If the 1/4" passes an unbalanced connection, then a DI box is needed.

Vinny D · #14 02-28-2013, 12:34 PM

If it were me I would go with one of these:
http://www.audiopile.net/products/El...cutsheet.shtml

This way you feed out of the 737 into the DI. The DI would then split (1) feed to the amplifier and one to the PA.
It also has ground lift options on each output to eliminate any noise.

I don't like going XLR to 1/4" back to XLR etc, etc...to many chances for unwanted noise to get into your signal.

By the way, that is a sweet preamp!

thumbstruck · #15 02-28-2013, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stone Soup

The back panel on the Avalon I looked at only had one XLR out. So you would go XLR out from the Avalon and into the Crest's XLR in and then out using the 1/4" from the Crest to the D.I. .

Took me four tries to word that so it made sense. ugh... I know what I mean.

Yeah, I saw that too, but it looks like mine only has a balanced line out. Must be a revision?

thumbstruck · #16 02-28-2013, 03:49 PM

Could I got from the Avalon 1/4" out into the Radial Pro DI, and then send the 1/4" through the crest, and the low z out to house?

Stone Soup · #17 02-28-2013, 04:25 PM

If the Avalon has a 1/4" out, yes you can.

Stone Soup · #18 02-28-2013, 04:30 PM

Seems you have a special edition:

This is the version I was using for reference:

thumbstruck · #19 02-28-2013, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stone Soup

Seems you have a special edition:

This is the version I was using for reference:

That's the one! Until today, I wasn't even aware of a difference. So I can go from the Avalon 1/4" out into the Radial Pro DI, and then send the 1/4" through to the crest, and the low z out to house. Cool. Do I need a balanced cable from the Avalon to the DI? Haha, I'm in over my head...

Thanks for all the feedback you guys.

bongomania · #20 02-28-2013, 08:47 PM

One item to remember, the 1/4" output on the Avalon is balanced, but the 1/4" input and "thru" output on any DI box is UNbalanced. So the connection to the Crest will be unbalanced as well, no matter what cables you use. So use standard guitar cords to connect the Avalon to the DI, and from the DI to the Crest. I don't actually think that will be a problem in any practical sense, just mentioning it as a detail that will be useful to know.

It's tricky to explain but this setup of specific gear (Avalon + Crest) should work well, but the same arrangement of different preamp and power amp would not be as likely to work well. The Avalon has a stronger output than the average bass preamp, and the Crest has a lower input sensitivity than the average power amp, making a potential benefit of a balanced connection unnecessary.