is it bad to

bassninja7 · #1 10-08-2008, 12:07 AM

plug drums mics two guitars three vox and a bass into our mixer then main out into the house system?

Jazzdogg · #2 10-08-2008, 12:55 AM

In common practice each sound source is plugged into a separate channel strip on the mixer, with which gain levels can be optimized for each source before being summed and fed to amplifiers and speakers.

If you're going to use a sub-mixer before the main board, additional noise is likely to be introduced, especially if the sub-mixer is an economy model. You may not find the additional noise noteworthy in a live situation, but a reputable sound engineer will, and the noise will probably be enough to drive you batty if you're recording.

derrico1 · #3 10-08-2008, 08:54 AM

Is this a good idea? Maybe, but only if the mix you send FOH is exactly as you want it to sound.

In most cases (and assuming the FOH is adequate and operated with reasonable competence), I'd recommend against pre-mixing from the stage. Otherwise, you severely limit the FOH engineer's options for optimizing FOH sound.

Sending FOH a pre-mixed stage sound makes sense only if your stage sound is predictable and fully designed--and if you have a seperate set of feeds for the monitor mixes.

For example, your band might be a good candidate for sending FOH a pre-mixed feed if you use in-ears and run a silent stage, and you have dialed in the monitor mixes and the FOH band mix, and you use computer or MIDI controlled scenes to make complex processing and/or mix changes at predetermined moments in the set. In that case, your professional sound design is likely to be better than what you could expect from a FOH guy/gal who doesn't know your sound or set. In this case, the FOH engineer's job isn't much more complex than playing a well produced CD through the system.

JimmyM · #4 10-08-2008, 10:22 AM

Let's be honest here and not dance around it...it's a bad idea. You might as well tell the soundman, "You're an idiot and we don't trust you." But although he may be an idiot, I trust him a lot more than I would trusting a band to mix from the stage. Mixing from the stage isn't impossible, but it's really difficult. And if you've got your submix all wrong, you take away any chance for the soundman to correct it. Just use his board.

Laserman · #5 10-08-2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Let's be honest here and not dance around it...it's a bad idea. You might as well tell the soundman, "You're an idiot and we don't trust you." But although he may be an idiot, I trust him a lot more than I would trusting a band to mix from the stage. Mixing from the stage isn't impossible, but it's really difficult. And if you've got your submix all wrong, you take away any chance for the soundman to correct it. Just use his board.

Very sound advice here. Mixing form the stage is the last resort. Do so only if you don't own a snake or you don't have somebody who's well versed in FOH house sound. Sub Mix, Bad idea unless you need more channels than the FOH mixer has. Better to use fewer mikes on the drums than to Sub mix.

Barry

GregShadoan · #6 10-08-2008, 03:27 PM

There is at least on major-ish act that does in fact do this. The tour guy does monitors only, and then mixes a FOH mix on 2 busses, then sends FOH a left and right from the monitor desk. It will work, but there is a dedicated sound engineer still in the loop. Pussy cat dolls IIRC.

bassman1185 · #7 10-08-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregShadoan

There is at least on major-ish act that does in fact do this. The tour guy does monitors only, and then mixes a FOH mix on 2 busses, then sends FOH a left and right from the monitor desk. It will work, but there is a dedicated sound engineer still in the loop. Pussy cat dolls IIRC.

It's not too hard to screw up the mix of a CD and five mics that aren't even on.

Nick Kay · #8 10-08-2008, 06:58 PM

If you're going to do this, be smart about it. Get a dedicated monitor mixing board (ie: tons of aux busses, with split outs for each channel) that isn't a bargain-bin special. This lets you do whatever you want to your monitor mix, while leaving the house engineer in charge of FOH. You can't HEAR the FOH mix, so you shouldn't even think about mixing it.

Personally, I'd prefer to just trust the sound guy, though. He's getting paid to mix, so let him mix. You're getting paid to play, so stick to playing.

Jazzdogg · #9 10-08-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassman1185

It's not too hard to screw up the mix of a CD and five mics that aren't even on.

Now that's funny!

GregShadoan · #10 10-08-2008, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

Now that's funny!

I was a very strange night. They did actully use their mics', based on how long it took them to get monitor sound check done. I kept asking him, "are you sure"?, and he did it that way. The funniset part of the night was one of their moms, who lives near the venue, came out to see them, and asked me to turn one of them up. Threw up may hands....

JimmyM · #11 10-08-2008, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregShadoan

I was a very strange night. They did actully use their mics', based on how long it took them to get monitor sound check done. I kept asking him, "are you sure"?, and he did it that way. The funniset part of the night was one of their moms, who lives near the venue, came out to see them, and asked me to turn one of them up. Threw up may hands....

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! That's the funniest thing I ever heard! Mom's trying to run sound...if that were me, one of us would have left the venue in a body bag...and it probably wouldn't have been her!

mrokern · #12 10-09-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregShadoan

There is at least on major-ish act that does in fact do this. The tour guy does monitors only, and then mixes a FOH mix on 2 busses, then sends FOH a left and right from the monitor desk. It will work, but there is a dedicated sound engineer still in the loop. Pussy cat dolls IIRC.

There have been a few over the years that are odd ones.

Tim LaMoy used to have to mix FOH for the Backstreet Boys from backstage / dressing rooms due to the insane volume in the house from the screaming girls. He'd get the system tweaked to a known state, and would do the mix through studio monitors.

Pearl Jam did an interesting setup a few years ago as well...their lines ran to a recording truck where their engineer did the tracking /mixing for their self-sold live albums. He'd also send sub-mixes to the FOH desk, where one of the techs from the PA company would basically babysit the levels between those submixes.

Note in both cases you had experienced engineers separate from the band. Don't try this at home, boys and girls.

-Mark

GregShadoan · #13 10-10-2008, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrokern

There have been a few over the years that are odd ones.

Tim LaMoy used to have to mix FOH for the Backstreet Boys from backstage / dressing rooms due to the insane volume in the house from the screaming girls. He'd get the system tweaked to a known state, and would do the mix through studio monitors.

Pearl Jam did an interesting setup a few years ago as well...their lines ran to a recording truck where their engineer did the tracking /mixing for their self-sold live albums. He'd also send sub-mixes to the FOH desk, where one of the techs from the PA company would basically babysit the levels between those submixes.

Note in both cases you had experienced engineers separate from the band. Don't try this at home, boys and girls.

-Mark

Garbage did their mix outside in a truck as well. By all accounts (i wasn't there) it was a Great mix.