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06-13-2011, 03:39 AM
| | | | Beginner to PAs
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I am looking to buy myself a PA system which I will probably use for doing sound for a friend's band along with any bands that I play with requiring a PA . My friend's band has 2 guitar players playing out of 60 watt amps, a bass player playing out of a 350 watt amp, and drums. They usually play in bars and small auditoriums. I was thinking something in the 600 watt range should suffice, but I am wondering what you guys think? They already have a Phonic PA system that has 200 watts, so I was wondering if I could use the speakers from this as monitors and just buy new speakers and a powered mixer? Any suggestions and advice would be appreciated as I am pretty new to this. Thanks!
P.S. Here are some links to some things I found on ebay, although I am a little skeptical on them. If they are good though, then I would definitely like to get them: Powered Mixer Mixing Power Amp Amplifier Pa System 9100 | eBay Pair 15" PA DJ KJ Speakers 600 W NEW PRO Audio Speaker | eBay
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Gear- MIM Fender P Bass, Squier Vintage Modified 70's Jazz Bass, Fender Bassman 250, Kid Bassist Club #22
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06-13-2011, 04:49 AM
| | Banned
Endorsing Artist: MLaghus Custom Basses | | Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boca Raton - FL | | No, no, no...
First thing to learn about PA's is "buy once, cry once".
The stuff you linked is bottom quality, run from it...
Here's what you need to do: Get a passive mixer and powered speakers. Some suggestions, good bang for the buck: Proel FLASH12A (powered) for $329.00 : The DJ House Wharfedale Titan 12 Active Speaker System
For a good mixer, try this: Peavey PV14 Mixer: Shop Pro Audio & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend
If money is short, buy only one speaker and the mixer. The old system can be used for monitoring now, but sell it ASAP and add some cash to finance a total of 3 identical speakers, one for monitoring and two for FOH attached to poles.
You should not put any bass or kick on your PA with these.
If you do as I suggest, you'll have a scalable system that will handle upgrades and has potential to play much larger venues, just add more speakers.
In the future, you'll have a kick a** PA by just adding a pair of active subs with built-in crossover to a total of 4 active 12's (2 for FOH, 2 for monitoring).
Going the opposite direction (active mixer and passive speakers) kills any possibility of an upgrade in the future. |
06-13-2011, 05:10 AM
| | | Thats what I was afraid of. Thank you for the quick reply and all of the help! Just 1 more question. Instead of the Peavey mixer, can I get t his mixer instead? I know it has 2 less mic inputs, but the usb interface would probably help me out if I ever decide to record. Thanks!
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Gear- MIM Fender P Bass, Squier Vintage Modified 70's Jazz Bass, Fender Bassman 250, Kid Bassist Club #22
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06-13-2011, 05:21 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: CT | | Quote:
Originally Posted by allexcosta  No, no, no...
First thing to learn about PA's is "buy once, cry once".
The stuff you linked is bottom quality, run from it...
| +1 to that.
However, I pesonally don't like the powered speaker route.
(Though its more convenient)
If the power amp goes or the speaker goes..either way you're SOL.Also, upgrading in the future will cost more, and be more difficult.
My vote is for a pair of 15 mains (Decent ones)the Yamaha (Cant recall the model..but not the cheaper ones)..They're like 400 each.
And then a decent board and power amp.
Power amps have come down in price over the yrs...
DO NOT skimp on the speakers though.You can get away whith an inexpensive Board (Peavey would be perfect)..and a cheap power amp that you can upgrade later (If you must)
IME..JMO..YMMV..some cars not for use with some sets.  |
06-13-2011, 05:29 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: London, UK | | You will find that as you go towards mixers with fewer channels, each channel strip on a smaller mixer has fewer features.
It's really quite hard trying to find a small mixer that has things like EQ with sweepable mids, or one that has sufficient aux outputs to run more than one monitor mix, or effects send. It looks like that Proel just has a 3 band EQ and two aux sends.
This may or may not be important to you, it depends whether your main priority is live sound or recording.
If it's live sound, I would go for a good quality semi-pro mixer that also had built in effects like this soundcraft one SOUNDCRAFT MPMi 12 PROFESSIONAL 12CH LIVE MIXER @ AUDIO WORKS
Similar mixers from Mackie, Yamaha etc are available at around the same price. It is probably much more expensive than what you had in mind, but it will be much more flexible and you won't outgrow it within the first few weeks. Much better to buy a few well chosen pieces of gear than a mountain of cheap stuff.
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06-13-2011, 06:31 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: South Florida | | Great information on PA's. My first PA purchase was a Kustom 100 watt ($200) that I got rid of for $80.All I can add is to try to see and hear what working bands are using. Maybe one of the mega-stores have some units set up as well. Also take your time doing your homework before you buy.  |
06-13-2011, 06:47 AM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Jools4001 You will find that as you go towards mixers with fewer channels, each channel strip on a smaller mixer has fewer features.
It's really quite hard trying to find a small mixer that has things like EQ with sweepable mids, or one that has sufficient aux outputs to run more than one monitor mix, or effects send. It looks like that Proel just has a 3 band EQ and two aux sends.
This may or may not be important to you, it depends whether your main priority is live sound or recording.
If it's live sound, I would go for a good quality semi-pro mixer that also had built in effects like this soundcraft one SOUNDCRAFT MPMi 12 PROFESSIONAL 12CH LIVE MIXER @ AUDIO WORKS
Similar mixers from Mackie, Yamaha etc are available at around the same price. It is probably much more expensive than what you had in mind, but it will be much more flexible and you won't outgrow it within the first few weeks. Much better to buy a few well chosen pieces of gear than a mountain of cheap stuff. | My main concern right now would be for gig, and if I can get something that will record well, than it would be an added bonus.
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Gear- MIM Fender P Bass, Squier Vintage Modified 70's Jazz Bass, Fender Bassman 250, Kid Bassist Club #22
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06-13-2011, 07:04 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Minnesota - Twin Cities | | | Buy and Read the Yamaha sound system book.
THEN
My first thought is to buy a mixer amp of some sort.. they eventually become practice and monitor PA systems.
My opinion is quality used is better than cheap new.
sound gear has come a long way in the past few years.
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06-13-2011, 07:18 AM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by MNAirHead Buy and Read the Yamaha sound system book.
THEN
My first thought is to buy a mixer amp of some sort.. they eventually become practice and monitor PA systems.
My opinion is quality used is better than cheap new.
sound gear has come a long way in the past few years. | This might be a dumb question, but when you say mixer amp, do you mean a powered mixer?
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06-13-2011, 08:19 AM
| | Banned
Endorsing Artist: MLaghus Custom Basses | | Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boca Raton - FL | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassdirty +1 to that.
However, I pesonally don't like the powered speaker route.
(Though its more convenient)
If the power amp goes or the speaker goes..either way you're SOL.Also, upgrading in the future will cost more, and be more difficult.
My vote is for a pair of 15 mains (Decent ones)the Yamaha (Cant recall the model..but not the cheaper ones)..They're like 400 each.
And then a decent board and power amp.
Power amps have come down in price over the yrs...
DO NOT skimp on the speakers though.You can get away whith an inexpensive Board (Peavey would be perfect)..and a cheap power amp that you can upgrade later (If you must)
IME..JMO..YMMV..some cars not for use with some sets. | This is a good route as well, but powered speakers offer a few advantages. Built-in DSP and limiting and you can carry a single speaker in one hand if it's a small gig.
A powered speaker will sound A WHOLE LOT better in the hands of a newbie than a power amp + passive speakers. Then he will need some speaker management system, like a Driverack, which is more money.
Buying a bunch of identical powered speakers allows more flexibility, scalability and better sound IMO. If you got 2 for FOH and 2 for monitors you can always take one of the monitors to do FOH while the other one gets fixed.
Matching amps to cabs is not that easy for a beginner and buying subs with built-in crossover later on makes a great tiny PA with no need for external racks besides some EQ's.
Finally, should a bigger gig come up, he can simply rent a pair of powered speakers and double the coverage. |
06-13-2011, 08:34 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Algonac Michigan | | | I was in the same position you were a few months ago, where i took up duties of suppling the PA for a startup cover band. I ended getting a couple of of RCF 312A for about 450 apiece (they are awesome) and bought the Yahmaha MG16 mixer for 400. I just bought a Behriger 31 dual band eq this week, and we have a couple of old monitors for now. I would like to add at least one powered sub in the future. Take a look at the RCFs they are superb.
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06-13-2011, 08:42 AM
| | Banned
Endorsing Artist: MLaghus Custom Basses | | Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boca Raton - FL | | Quote:
Originally Posted by DONZI97 I was in the same position you were a few months ago, where i took up duties of suppling the PA for a startup cover band. I ended getting a couple of of RCF 312A for about 450 apiece (they are awesome) and bought the Yahmaha MG16 mixer for 400. I just bought a Behriger 31 dual band eq this week, and we have a couple of old monitors for now. I would like to add at least one powered sub in the future. Take a look at the RCFs they are superb. | Good advice...
RCF speakers are actually better than the ones I mentioned above (I actually own a pair of them myself). I just didn't know they were only $450 each, since they used to cost more money. The Yamaha MG16 is a good mixer that stands a lot of abuse, very tough piece of gear.
As far as subs, the Proel Flash 15SA is surprisingly good and won't break the bank, or you could stay with RCF.
I've got a single KV2 EX2.2 under my RCF's and it sounds superb. |
06-13-2011, 10:30 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Beaverton, Oregon USA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by gotmule? Thats what I was afraid of. Thank you for the quick reply and all of the help! Just 1 more question. Instead of the Peavey mixer, can I get t his mixer instead? I know it has 2 less mic inputs, but the usb interface would probably help me out if I ever decide to record. Thanks! | You don't need USB from the mixer to record. Just look around for a USB audio interface, like an M-audio Fast Track USB and then use a pair of XLR outputs from the board. That way you can record with just about any board and won't be limited to only using boards with USB outputs.
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06-13-2011, 04:43 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Minnesota - Twin Cities | | | OR record to Audacity directly... just takes cables and a laptop.
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Minnesota Classic VW Collector & Peavey USA Custom Shop Freak
Peavey USA Club Member # 122 (X40) Bassists who drive a VW club #? (x20+)
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06-13-2011, 04:56 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Beaverton, Oregon USA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by MNAirHead OR record to Audacity directly... just takes cables and a laptop. | 
What kind of audio inputs does your laptop have?
No computer I've worked with ever had an XLR input.
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Ibanez Club #648; P&W Bassists #795; V-AMP Squad #7; Oregon Bassists #29
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06-13-2011, 09:06 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: San Diego | | Quote:
Originally Posted by KingRazor
What kind of audio inputs does your laptop have?
No computer I've worked with ever had an XLR input. | If it has Firewire he's good to go, I've been using one of these for about 6 years... M-Audio Firewire 410 24/192 External Sound Card |
06-13-2011, 09:13 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Beaverton, Oregon USA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Brother | That's more expensive than the Fast Track USB. 
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06-13-2011, 10:45 PM
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06-14-2011, 06:43 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: montana | | Quote:
Originally Posted by gotmule? | Word to the wise anytime you see the word DJ in the description run away FAST.  That being said JRX is JBLs attempt to compete with blowinger and they pretty much suck. I have never heard the yamahas but I'm guessing they are pretty old. If you go yamaha try to find some used club series.
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