Best Sub-woofer for Taurus iii?

[Indiedog]

YES, I did search (and search) and read lots of threads about sub-woofers but still I feel that the best powered sub-woofer to reproduce the sound of the Moog Taurus iii pedals is unclear. What is "best" for me? Well, first I have two JBL Eon 15's (from about 2002) so I want the powered sub to work well with those. And second, I don't need to cover a huge room but I don't mind if they are somewhat overpowered. Yes, I understand that I do need a large room to contain the large wavelengths involved. I also know that "specs" don't always reveal the true capacity and visceral punch of a good sub (but yet I am a bit perplexed that even something like the QSC's don't seem to go that low on paper). I'd like to keep it under $1200 and special bonus if the winner is $700-800. Yes, I will also use it for my keyboards but again, the desire is to get the Taurus to finally speak to me properly. Thanks in advance, folks.

[Big_Daws]

there is no such thing...and you are pretty much going to be looking for a unicorn (IMO). the reason i say that is that NO manufacturer makes a sub for that specific purpose.

my suggestion, is try renting a bunch of different ones and find the one that you are looking for.

[Indiedog]

Good idea, thanks.
But nonetheless, I do feel that there are some folks here who have valuable experience with hardware that truly does exist so I welcome any ideas.

[Big_Daws]

i agree...someone might have something similar and was on a similar quest. im not sure however if there is anything within your price range, but try looking at the JBL SRX subs (i don't think that the PRX618-XLF will hold up, and i know the SRX will be out of your price range) OR take a look at the Mackie HD1801. also take a look at some EAW subs.

[Indiedog]

Thanks, Big_Daws!
The SRX series looks nice but probably outside my range; ditto for the EAW. The Mackie might be in the running.

But I am learning more with each suggestion! THANKS!

[MNAirHead]

What you "really" may be describing is a large PA moving a ton of air... not a brand.

[sdenney78]

Check out the Cerwin Vega CVA-118 or CVA-121. These powered subs won't have the punchiest sound, but they will reproduce some of the lowest frequencies in your price range. For your price range and needs, it will probably be hard to find the perfect sub. However, you should still be able to find a sub that will match your needs fairly well.

[RDUB]

Just purchased some new PA gear, and just for fun I put my AER Amp on top of a Yorkville NX 720P. Pretty amazing earth moving sound! Not something I'd ever have any real use for, though. Way too much low end crap for any gig I play, including large stage rock shows. I let the FOH take care of it...

[Indiedog]

Originally Posted by sdenney78

Check out the Cerwin Vega CVA-118 or CVA-121. These powered subs won't have the punchiest sound, but they will reproduce some of the lowest frequencies in your price range. For your price range and needs, it will probably be hard to find the perfect sub. However, you should still be able to find a sub that will match your needs fairly well.

Hmmm...so far the 118 looks interesting. I'll keep diggin...thanks!
I very much appreciate your feedback, folks!

[testing1two]

I don't think you'll find a single-driver powered sub better than the QSC KW181. It's a little over your budget but well worth it in my opinion.

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by Indiedog

YES, I did search (and search) and read lots of threads about sub-woofers but still I feel that the best powered sub-woofer to reproduce the sound of the Moog Taurus iii pedals is unclear. What is "best" for me? Well, first I have two JBL Eon 15's (from about 2002) so I want the powered sub to work well with those. And second, I don't need to cover a huge room but I don't mind if they are somewhat overpowered. Yes, I understand that I do need a large room to contain the large wavelengths involved. I also know that "specs" don't always reveal the true capacity and visceral punch of a good sub (but yet I am a bit perplexed that even something like the QSC's don't seem to go that low on paper). I'd like to keep it under $1200 and special bonus if the winner is $700-800. Yes, I will also use it for my keyboards but again, the desire is to get the Taurus to finally speak to me properly. Thanks in advance, folks.

You CAN achieve extremely low frequencies in a smaller room, but you have to know why it's difficult, first.

Is this for live, or studio/home? If it's for live, plan on buying more power and speakers than you think you'd need. More drivers and cone area, along with more power, will get you where you want to be but it's hard to pick a price point and know if it will work. Look into sealed enclosures with multiple drivers, or some kind of DIY cabinet of this type- car stereo drivers can do what you want and they're not necessarily made for live sound reinforcement but with limiting/compression, you can definitely move some serious air in the <20Hz range. You'll want amplification that has high damping factor.

[Indiedog]

Thanks, 1958Bassman.
The priority would be mainly for Studio use in a recording/small performance capacity. I want to be able to have full-range sound. I assumed it would have to be a PA sub and of course that would easily integrate with my Eons. The benefits of a PA sub would be that in addition to the above I would be prepared for more traditional performance uses (playing a small club).

The Taurus pedals just don't properly reproduce through the Eon's.

[F-Clef-Jef]

Originally Posted by Indiedog

YES, I did search (and search) and read lots of threads about sub-woofers but still I feel that the best powered sub-woofer to reproduce the sound of the Moog Taurus iii pedals is unclear. What is "best" for me? Well, first I have two JBL Eon 15's (from about 2002) so I want the powered sub to work well with those. And second, I don't need to cover a huge room but I don't mind if they are somewhat overpowered. Yes, I understand that I do need a large room to contain the large wavelengths involved. I also know that "specs" don't always reveal the true capacity and visceral punch of a good sub (but yet I am a bit perplexed that even something like the QSC's don't seem to go that low on paper). I'd like to keep it under $1200 and special bonus if the winner is $700-800. Yes, I will also use it for my keyboards but again, the desire is to get the Taurus to finally speak to me properly. Thanks in advance, folks.

Ummmm... no. Room size doesn't mean a thing. Bass waves don't need "room to develop". A sub doesn't care what instrument you are putting through it. Frequencies are frequencies.

You also stated that you are using this in the studio. Why would you need a sub in a studio? Is it just to enhance your feel during the performance? I guess I can kinda understand that.

But, if you are intent on adding a sub, I have a pair of Mackie SRM 1801's they are very nice. They will definitely give you plenty of low end, although you may need to add your own crossover because the 1801's crossover is set 125hz which may or may not be optimum for use with your Eons.

Another thought... Mackie DLM12S? Tiny. 48 lbs. <$1000 they look very interesting, and very small & lightweight.

[Indiedog]

Thanks Jef.
When I say "Studio" I don't just mean recording studio. Historically, several of us call the space we jam in a "studio." These spaces are usually up to 20 x 40 feet or so. And when I DO record, I naturally want to be able to hear the mix accurately on big speakers as well as my small studio monitors. A powered sub would allow me quite a bit of flexibility in all these situations.

The new Mackie DLM 12s looks very interesting. It has escaped my attention due to its newness. I only looked at one or two sites so far but will continue researching them.

Thanks to all!

[Stick_Player]

Originally Posted by Indiedog

... Yes, I understand that I do need a large room to contain the large wavelengths involved.

This is a myth!

My Taurus 3s playing a LOW C (33 Hz.) sound just fine through headphones - maybe an inch from my eardrum?

I do have an Event S250 powered sub in my 'studio' - 20x20x8'. Plenty of lows.

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by Indiedog

Thanks, 1958Bassman.
The priority would be mainly for Studio use in a recording/small performance capacity. I want to be able to have full-range sound. I assumed it would have to be a PA sub and of course that would easily integrate with my Eons. The benefits of a PA sub would be that in addition to the above I would be prepared for more traditional performance uses (playing a small club).

The Taurus pedals just don't properly reproduce through the Eon's.

Most of the people I know who use Taurus pedals play them through the PA and if they use them in a studio, it's well-equipped with large speakers. If you'll be recording and mixing with the Taurus in the music, I would advise against using the really big speakers unless you intend to market the music to people who also have speakers that go down as low. This is the main reason studios use small, commonly available speakers as well as the large ones, if they use large speakers at all.

At some point, you have to say "It goes low enough".

[Indiedog]

Thanks, Bassman!

I do understand the importance of using a variety of monitor speakers when mixing. I make most of the critical decisions based on my small set but also like to check the mix on my larger home and studio speakers.

Ultimately, my music is for my satisfaction first and foremost and that is why I want to hear (feel) the Taurus. Perhaps few instruments are as esoteric and excessive (i.e. not really necessary) as the Taurus. But it was always a dream to have them and I since I went to the trouble and expense to get them I want to feel that excitement in my home studio...the the thing is pure joy to me.

I am close to deciding on the new Mackie DLM-12s...(thanks Jef!)

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by F-Clef-Jef

Ummmm... no. Room size doesn't mean a thing. Bass waves don't need "room to develop". A sub doesn't care what instrument you are putting through it. Frequencies are frequencies.

You also stated that you are using this in the studio. Why would you need a sub in a studio? Is it just to enhance your feel during the performance? I guess I can kinda understand that.

But, if you are intent on adding a sub, I have a pair of Mackie SRM 1801's they are very nice. They will definitely give you plenty of low end, although you may need to add your own crossover because the 1801's crossover is set 125hz which may or may not be optimum for use with your Eons.

Another thought... Mackie DLM12S? Tiny. 48 lbs. <$1000 they look very interesting, and very small & lightweight.

Uh, room size DOES matter WRT how the bass will sound at a given location because the room modes are distributed differently from a large room. You won't generally have the same energy at 20HZ in a small room as a larger room and bass traps are sized differently for each. Damping correctly can make a small room sound really good, though.

[SactoBass]

Indie:

When I was in a YES tribute band, I had a set of bass pedals very similar to your T3 pedals, and I needed to have a pair of cabs that could do it justice. After much research, I realized that there was no "off the shelf" cab that would meet my needs. So I designed and built a pair of sub cabs and loaded each cab with a McCauley 6174. McCauley describes it as follows: "The 6174 18" transducer is an ultra-high performance woofer designed to reproduce low and extended low frequency material at very high SPL's." And they are right! The 6174 has over 2 inches of cone excursion! Universal Studios used these when installing the sound system for their Terminator 2 3-D attraction.

The cabs I built ended up being about the size of a washer and dryer set, and I used software to size the cabs and the port sizes and lengths per the Thiele-Small parameters for the 6174.

I fed the pair of subs with a 3200 watt power amp. The end result was fantastic!

A lot of work? Yes, but it was worth it in the end.

If you are not into building your own cabs, an easier way would be to have Don Oatman at LDS (Low Down Sound) build the cabs for you. He would even acquire the 6174's for you and load the cabs with them.

Have fun!

(Oh, and btw, don't let anyone talk you into believing that you need to have a room big enough for the long wavelength to "develop". That is complete nonsense. You could put those subs in your bathroom and step on the low C and shake your spleen!)

[Indiedog]

SactoBass, i like the cut of your jib!

Fascinating stuff and food for thought. Thanks for the details. I'll add it to the list to research.